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Forum: VOW General
Thread: Abuse of Power?
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2007-06-11 12:11:29
I had always thought that the forum was a place for us players to come and voice our thoughts, concerns, and opinions on the game. A few days ago, I created a thread to discuss something that I felt was a concern and evidently the mods didn't think so. First Denzil decides to edit my post for me, then it's my understanding that it was him, but the whole thread is removed. Just because some people decided to start in on something else. Why remove the whole thread? It was meant to be productive and to maybe help bring some ideas to the table for the mods to maybe improve the way chat is restored. Denzil is real big on making sure we all know that they don't get paid to do their jobs and they have lives other than the game. Then why did you accept the job if you can't, or aren't willing to give it the time needed? I am very offended by a couple of things with this. First Denzil edits my post, then he used foul language in a response, then he deletes the whole thing on the premise that it was being taken in a different direction then it started. Excuse me, but how many threads are there like that in the forum? Almost every single one, have any of them been deleted by the mods? Not to my knowledge, I am extremely upset and offended, I apologise, but I feel that this was an abuse and it was inconsiderate on behalf of the mods. I hope the mods or mod that are responsible will be held accountable as we as players are expected to respect each other, and to not use foul language. Whoever it was, since I don't know for sure who it was, showed very little if any respect by these actions.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2007-06-11 12:31:53
I apologise for taking the thread in a different direction :(

And you're not the only one, lol, i cant create a thread without it being deleted anymore :)
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2007-06-11 12:35:29
wasn't your fault, The mod that made the decision to delete it, is the one at fault. It's like I said, how many threads in this forum have been taken off subject and yet are still here? lol now back to subject. :) :P
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-06-11 12:58:50
The "vets bashing LAWs via single tag teams" thread was also deleted. -.-

Btw, We can still technically noob bash. Nothing in the rules state otherwise. Except in somewhere in the forums where noone can find it?


One account per person only.

No bad language or behavior.

No account or password sharing.

No selling/gifting accounts."

"Rules of Conduct update
The rules of conduct have been updated with the rule that it is illegal to use software that automatically access or reloads the games.

Doing this can get your account permanently banned."

And finally:

PS. Is it wonder that the mods abuse the powers? *Waits for a post deletion*
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-06-11 13:58:41
I actually Have a copy of the deleted thread, a screen shot of it so to speak. I would post it here but I dont want to see another thread deleted, So I have past it on to peter for his thoughts on this matter. I personally feel it was wrong for denzil to delete the thread and the way he did it, it was an active thread. And I know Denzil deleted the thread because he told me so. i am not here to bash on denzil as I have done before but to try to keep the integrety of the forum and game, by reporting any abuse when I deem it neccessary. I feel everyone needs someone to answer too, when a mod breaks rules, in my opinion, I report that to peter for him to judge for himself. It is not a personal attack against him or anyone else. this is a game and not real life so lets not take what happens in game or in the forum too personal. its all about motivation.
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-06-11 14:19:18
Btw, can you get a chat ban based on your actions on the forum?
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2007-06-11 15:17:53
lol i agree with Kish, we can noob bash all we like and complain complete innocence to the subject.

I know 2 mods for definate that are bashing more than anyone else in the game put together.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2007-06-11 15:20:25
PS: Scapegoat Power!
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-06-11 15:27:57
Yes the same rules that apply in chat apply here as well.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2007-06-11 15:30:16
There's rules in the chat?!? no wonder i keep losing it!
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-06-11 15:40:36
My personal view on this is that some good points and suggestions were made in the deleted thread, but because emotions ran high and personality conflicts reared their ugly heads yet again, the issues got side-tracked and were, in the main, ignored completely.

Should the whole topic have been deleted - I don't think so as the issues that were raised appear to have not been answered. Issues that included the period of time it takes a player to get their chat back, the visibility (or lack of it) of the rules and the accusations that Mods 'invent' new rules to suit themselves. (These are the issues on the original thread as I remember them, not necessarily my own feelings)

There is too much sniping + back-biting going on at the moment - some players feel that the Mods are abusing their position, some Mods feel they are being slated for doing what is mainly a thankless task within the framework of the rules as they understand them - little digs both here in the forum and on the chat. Which should bring the discusion back around to the visibility of the rules of the game.

What the players on VOW have to realise is that the Mods are also players themselves and don't log onto VOW to be given abuse every time they chat-ban or suspend a player for breaking the rules. (I know - what rules? is going to be a question raised here)

The flip side of this coin is that the Mods have to realise that when taking on that role, they would be liable for a certain amount of criticism for what they do as a Mod - but they should separate their Mod role from their activities as a Player. And probably more importantly, not take any personal issues with any players into consideration when performing Mod duties. Easier said than done I know given the volume + content of some comments made, but each incident that requires Mod involvement should be viewed purely + simply on the incident itself. (That's not to say that past/repeated offences shouldn't be taken into account when deciding the length of ban)

And what everybody needs to remember is that VOW doesn't allow personal attacks in Chat or the Forum - this covers EQUALLY one player posting a personal attack against another player, a player posting a personal attack against a Mod and a Mod raising a personal attack against a player (or another Mod I suppose).

Mods are no better or worse than anybody else on VOW - and shouldn't be treated any differently than anybody else - they 'just' provide a necessary service to the game. Do they make mistakes? Doesn't everybody? Should they be held accountable for it if/when they do? I think so, yes - but the public vitriole that goes on in chat about it isn't right either.

If players think an injustice has occurred, they should have a course of action available to raise a complaint - in a proper fashion - and should expect a response either explaining why the action was taken, or an apology if the Mod is proven to have acted incorrectly. I must emphasise that complaints should be made IN A PROPER FASHION though.

I know the Mod e-mail account is there and if used properly by players this would resolve the vast majority of issues. But I know there are times when players haven't been happy with the responses from the Mod e-mail account - so there should be somewhere else for them to go to (especially if it is a direct problem with a Mod or Mods I suppose)

Anyway - that's my opinion - for what it's worth :D

(And the sniping continues even in this topic - that's not going to help resolve anything!)
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2007-06-11 16:09:48
we cant exactly complain about mods abusing power or, breaking rules by emailing the mods can we? cos we dont know whos gonna read it. I complained about a player, no action was taken (and now i've been told he's a moderator)

Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-06-11 16:16:20
That's why I said 'But I know there are times when players haven't been happy with the responses from the Mod e-mail account - so there should be somewhere else for them to go to (especially if it is a direct problem with a Mod or Mods I suppose)'

Will this happen? No idea I'm afraid.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2007-06-11 16:22:12
i didnt have time to read the whole thing, i skim-read :P
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-06-12 02:11:04
Hi all.

ē Well just to set the boat right. I did kill off the thread. Why because of the same rule in chat. If things get to far out of control with players its bans or just easier to kill off the thread. In a way it was an accident any way. I was posting and had just added to the thread when I hit the delete key witch killed it off. After some Hine sight I thought that I did the right thing any way. I am not worried about any thing I spoke about in the thread. If any player took offence I am sorry but I deem conman language as useable in any chat if itís used in the correct context. We as mods got a speaking to by peter over what he deemed acceptable and not when it comes to certain words. The term has to be ok for the masses not a small group of people to keep happy. Sorry if it effected you at all. It was just a statement. I thought we resolved this in chat. I must admit the spammer was making it very hard to understand. I hope this has fixed the problem we had. Thanks.

ē One of the tools we have discussed lately is a yes\no box for the forums. Yes a few forums have been killed off when they have not meant to be. So it can happen to any one. There are lots of things like rule updates made in the mod forum which we run by Peter. When it gets approved it gets up dated or posted in the forum. Thatís if we donít accidentally kill it off of course. Peter is looking at fixing this soon.

ē Just so players know. Peter does see all emails and does see all the bans. He lets us deal with them. Thatís why we are here. If Peter sees a bad ban and it has not been dealt with he will ask us to resolve it. So the mods do. Then we speak to the silent mod or main mod to clarify what the problem is. This is an easy fix. So please donít feel you have been victimized by the mods. Peter reads his correspondence that is meant for him and to make sure us FF to him too. There is no point in changing it and I am sure itís not going to change any way. Thanks for your ideas on this any way.

ē To answer a question I think john asked. Yes there will be an auto undo ban system coming soon. Its one of the tools Peter has been working on. I can not discus it because I donít know the details so please donít ask. How ever we as mods have asked for certain things. So itís a wait and sees.

ē Now I here about mods doing stuff wrong. Is this the truth or is it just bad feelings? If any of you have reports send them onto the mod center. If this is true or not it will get dealt with and Peter will also take note and reprimandsí will be made... Oh I see People donít like my mod comments. So if this is the case I will just reframe from doing it and post as normal. Sorry if these extra little Posts distress any one from the standard format of threads. I was just trying to reply any questions or statements players asked or made.

ē Thanks john for some awesome input into this thread and the thread before. Your right about rules and updates being on what ever page. At this very time the mods are talking to Peter about what we think needs to be done. So I hope it will get changed too very soon with luck. As you know things are changing in the game with V.O.W.3. One of the thinks mods have asked for is a forum ban for pests in here. It will not take away chat in V.O.W

ē I would like to think players understand what respect is. Even though some of you donít like it its part of doing your job as a mod. Let me explain some basics. If I donít like a player in game and he is on a 50% call on getting a ban I ask a different mod to take it or not take it. Itís all a mater of integrity. I would just love to ban him but you have to be able to step back from this and see the big pitcher. This is why I can ban friends if need be. Rules are rules. I am happy doing this job but being bashed by players for any thing that is said in chat by me or something else or a roomer all comes back the the mods. Itís always our fault. .
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-06-12 08:47:58
I put my hands up. I give up. V.O.W can run with a full silent mod crew now. I will let the Plit mods deal with the players. I am writing to Peter after this post to be taken off the mod list fully. I am sure Peter will verify this at a later date. I can not believe that people are so naive to think the mod crew is corrupted and evil. I will let Peter know who I have asked for as my replacement. Thanks to all the players that have helped me in game with my job and good luck to all the silent mods! I think youíre all awesome. Cheers lads. I am just going to get back to playing and minding my own business...

CIA all in game.
Post by: horne 86(108503)
2007-06-12 15:29:06
To be honest, since March of 2006 I have never really gotten along with the mods but in reference to Denzil, whether or not he made bad calls I think he did what he thought was best for the game and at some point in time everyone makes bad calls, so yes, if he did wrong he should be held accountable but who are we to bash him openly in the forums like this? "He who has not sinned cast the first stone"

Although I do see and experience what I feel is favoritism (I feel that rules are more enforced with certain people and don't apply to everyone to the same extent) I can honestly say that Denzil of all the known mods I have dealt with has been one of the fairer mods, when he banned me and I asked why he actually provided me with a valid reason and didn't just take a screenshot of the plitgame rules and show them to me. I'm not too keen on the mods based on my history with them and how I have been handled but how Denzil is being treated right now is no better.

I consider two of the people that posted dear friends so they know this isn't an attack on them as but as far as I have seen, Denzil has tried his best to do what is fair, he even banned himself for breaking a rule and doesn't like banning people. How many people would have done that?

I know what it is like to be put on the spot like Denzil is right now on VOW, I know what it is like to be openly attacked. If he made a mistake then it should be brought to the light but the man doesn't deserve to be hounded for it. I know what it's like to be hounded for things much later on plus, I'm sure there are people that do and have done worse than Denzil that aren't getting the heat he's getting right now.

Players should be dealt with properly but so should mods, even though he has decided to step down and I truly hope that he can finally get some peace and enjoy the game now. Denz is one of the people that VOW is better for having whether it be as a mod or as a player.

although, it would have been nice to see the thread.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2007-06-13 10:38:13
deleted my post.. but it was full of wisdom!
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-06-13 12:21:38
well if you post crap and its counted as spam we kill them off because you are not adding any thing to the thread. lol no offence but try to stay on topic. you know how all mods are evil and do the wrong things lol. as if. lol
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2007-06-13 17:56:47
Ouch that hurt Denz.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-06-14 00:09:32
the trueth normaly does. So you live and learn.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2007-06-14 08:11:27
aahahahhahaha... funny.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-06-14 09:11:06
Well you cant blame me for posts going now. lol am back to normal. bet i go to log off when i see a rule braker doing his thing. will have to get use to useing the contacts link thingy again. and to kill off threads is in the past for me now! o o ya! and no more self bans too! Hee hee!

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