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Forum: VOW General
Thread: politic and a thought
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2006-12-29 03:46:04
Peter is considering introducing politics into vow by having us voting and stuff for a president. But yet when some of us tried to politic on something, we were shut done and told that the decision was for peter and peter alone, that's fine it is after all his game, but then why ask us to to vote on anything. I don't feel that politics belong in a game, as you then have the problem of the players wanting to have some say in other things as well, like who should be monitoring chat and such. Speaking of monitoring chat, I was watching someone play an online game that had a real nice way of dealing with people that didn't want to abide by the rules and yet the mods got no arguments. It was just a simple statement in the chat that said so and so lost chat for 5 min, then whatever the offense was, and the mods char name. It seems to work real well, as a char continues breaking rules the time limit is increased accordingly. Players know the problem is resolved, and what rule was broken. It sure beats losing chat for days on end and not knowing why. I think though that they have more mods on, I know I wonder sometimes if there are any mods here as there are times it takes forever for a situation to end. This maybe a pointless thread, but I try not to make any posts unless I have thought about it a bit as I don't like to say things that can't be explained sufficiently if need be. any critizism is welcome.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-12-29 12:36:18
Not exactly criticism, but the opinion of a player who has seen the game from various stances: pro-Mod, anti-Mod, chat mod, game mod (in another game).

5 minutes without the chat isn't really a punishment in my opinion. Sometimes, you can just go make a cup of tea/coffee, make a quick snack, and voila, chat is back. Surely a day at least is an apt punishment, especially for these who come on and just spam the chat with profanities, etc.

Having the mods come out in the middle of the chat and say "The Legend Killer(5618) has lost his chat for 10 minutes for swearing" also makes the idea of having silent mods pointless. Remember, the chat is a priviledge to allow players to communicate ingame and if abused, should rightly be removed, although I guess the offender will claim to the mods that "I have done nothing wrong". I had this when I modded another game for a short while.

Also, if the mods were to be identified, firstly it would defy the object of having silent mods, and secondly, there would be at least one person who would have something to say on who the mods are and who isn't a mod.

If PLIT was to get more game mods, surely this would cause more harm than good. As far as I know, there are 3 game mods and Denzil, now say that number is increased to 10. Wouldn't that make a LOT more room for error. You say it might get stuff resolved quicker, but if you have one mod taking one job, another mod taking another job, it allows for a single train of thought towards that particular job. From what I can see as a player, the system works. People get their chat back, people get their accounts back, people get punished for rule breaking.

What we have to remember is that the mods have lives to live. They cannot be on PLIT 24/7, unlike what Ray once said (sorry, but he did basically say that the mods cannot have a life).

Sometimes, it might take a while for a mod to ban someone for the simple reason that it does take time to ban someone. Talking from experience, you either need to play with the chat mod ban page open constantly, or you need to open another window/tab to get both windows, or just purely the fact that no mods might be on.

I do agree on the opening part though, but this is just the facts of life. People complain that VOW (or PLIT for that matter) is never updated, yet when an update is offered, there are those (I put my hand up here as well towards the Pres and old Legend idea) who don't like these ideas. There are a lot of Conservative players who don't like change and like to stay within a comfort zone, this is typical human nature; when something makes us feel good and is threatened to something unknown, we get defensive and defend what we have.

True, politics don't belong in the game, but we have that already within stables, within Federations, within Alliances - people vote for who they want as their leader. In theory, tourneys are also a form of politics, we decide to "vote" yes to entering them. Thinking like that though, life is just one vote after another, usually with just one vote.
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2006-12-30 01:05:24
If I remember correctly, the whole reason silent mods was brought about was because there were people like IC who for some reason thought that they had the right to question a mods decision in chat causing everyone in chat to start argueing. You say there are 3 game mods and Denzil, and just suppose that they are friends, so they are ingame at roughly the same time, then doesn't that mean that the game is then only watched by players that are responsible enough to remind people of the rules and report stuff to the mod acct.? It sounds to me like the position of mod should only be offered to people that have certain free time available and who want the job, not to someone on the basis of being friends of the main mod. What I do know is this; I have been asked by several players that since this is supposed to be a family game to be enjoyed by all ages would I as a mother let my children play, there is no way that I would let my children even contemplate joining this game. We have bullies in chat that are allowed to do what they want because they have friends, it's one reason why I don't participate in chat like I use to. I use to really enjoy this game, it's really sad watching how people can treat each other just because it's anonimous. For those that are consistent rule breakers and/or bullies, do you really think a few days is long to wait til they can start bullying people again? They know they will be back and they can then make up for lost time until the mods finally catch up to them again. Then once again it is only a matter of time until they can continue. I guess this was a pointless thread, I apologise for thinking of the people/possibly children that receive this abuse and react to it causing a loss of their privileges. I won't be posting again as it doesn't seem to matter, I guess I need to rethink on what's important.
Post by: yar(35506)
2006-12-30 07:37:24
"What we have to remember is that the mods have lives to live. They cannot be on PLIT 24/7, unlike what Ray once said (sorry, but he did basically say that the mods cannot have a life)"

I dont remember saying that, I remember saying that mods are players first, and mods 2nd. Head mods have alot of responsibility and take alot of time to do their job coreectly, so they might now have as much of a game life as they did before they had the position.

I like the system that tes referrs to, but it is alot more organized than the mod system in vow ever has, the mods work on shifts, so chat is always covered. it starts with a 5 min ban or goes up from there. This is a good idea, alot of problems come from new players, a 5 min ban is like a warning saying that isnt allowed here, if they continue breaking the rules the ban time increases. But mods who have the idea that their job is to punish rule breakers have the wrong attitudes to be mods in the first place, their motivation should be to facilitate good game play and chat. a small ban will send the message, without inraging the offender. And usually will solve the problem, if not the ban increases. to just throw the book at someone by banning them for a day or more the first time is a little barbaric in my opinion and only causes more problems. And what about those people that are banned wrongly, it has happened in the past, cause mods make bad calls. I feel the current mod system is broken and needs looked at and overhauled. I have alot better sytems in other games, that are alot more effective. this game is advertized as a family game, and yet is one of the most offensive that I play. other games that are not advertized as a family game and have a better mod system are alot better for people of all ages to play, and play comfortably. there will always be problems as long as there is a chat in any game. the focus should be to motivate people to follow the rules, and not try to force them. The best way of managing people to get them to do what you want is to make them feel it is thier own idea. so if you give smaller bans, and they say ok i wont do that again we could have a better chat, but when you try to force it upon people then they are going to take it personal and rebel and always be a trouble maker in some cases. i do understand that, some people need stiffer bans because they just take advantage, but i feel those will be rare. I know that we have a real "level headed" head mod now and things will hopefully get better for everyone. But this mod system does work and would be good for the game.

Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-12-30 10:55:12
To say that it is the game mods who need to work shifts is a little over the top. Shouldn't there be a lot more chat mods? As you know too well Ray, it is a lot easier for the head mod to have 15-20 good quality chat mods who are active, than to have 5 head mods who could (like Tes said... it is Tes, right?) just be all from say America, and can only get online at the same time.

If I was a head mod, perhaps an auto-return chat system is a good idea, but you need to look at it in the light of... will it be implemented? You have to remember that this sort of thing would have to be coded, and in the scale of things, probably wouldn't be looked at for a while since this whole VOW Pres is coming in soon.

Like I said before, perhaps not having a 5 minute ban isn't the option, since some people might not play for those 5 minutes. However, I have had an idea which I will put forward to the mods or Denzil regarding a little system similar to that which Ray and Tes talked about. But I think it might need a little bit of fine tweaking before I propose it.
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2006-12-30 11:47:16
Now everybody shut up.
I'm the new head mod. Now put a sock into it :D

Oh no, my cover is blown :D
Post by: yar(35506)
2006-12-30 15:33:23
lol suepahfly you posted in the wrong thread, we are not discussing who the head mod is but possable policy change as far as banning go.
And yes LK it would take a coding change, but it might be more beneficial than the idea of a vow president. lol
But we have both been here long enough to know that this aint going to happen lol
And suepahfly I hope you are the new head mod bud, because if you are not you just broke a rule that could get you banned. If you not edit your post before they see it:)
Post by: tbragu(97303)
2006-12-30 16:42:11
In reading this, I think that there are some good points made all around. I as well play another game, that has quite a few chat channels, and they have a time basede system of banning that starts at 1 hour, and doubles each consecutive time they break a rule, until it is a perma ban from chat.

But, maybe that is what the real secret to that ban system is. Separate channels for chat. I am not talking about a lot of them, maybe three at most. One, the family friendly one, with no swearing, no flaming, that sort of thing. Second, a more adult one, with mild swearing allowed, but still no flaming, etc. And the third being a rp forum. I know that this is a little out there, but I think it would help things out a lot.

Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2006-12-31 09:19:08
Wel ray, i just wanted to feel important, posting in threads with lots of difficult words too :D

Guess i should have read it first... :(
Post by: the k(38357)
2006-12-31 15:26:56
separate channels? 1 for roleplay, 1 for OOC and 1 for flaming? hell that be a good idea.
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-01-01 17:36:27
ROFL suepahfly, it generally works just to scan it real quick, but sometime you have to read the whole thing :)
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2007-01-01 21:16:08
I hate it when that happens :(
Nontheless, happy newyear ray!

and the others too, of course ;)
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-01-02 02:05:31
suepahfly Happy New Year
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2007-01-02 10:08:58
head ache... happy newyear allright...
Post by: lazy(27024)
2007-01-16 14:59:19
Happy Martin Luther King day.
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