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Forum: VOW General
Thread: Legends and other changes
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2005-12-28 19:11:41
Problems we are trying to solve:
- Someone holds 3+ belts in a league for a extended period of time

- God like characters in a league.

- Make the difference smaller between new and higher SSWO players.

- New league Veteran Wrestling Organisation, 4k exp and above. No style specific tournaments in this league.

- You can choose any style when you retire. Meaning that you can retire and return as the same style as you are.

- Legends damage bonus removed from all tournaments except in Veteran Wrestling Organisation.

- Add table and LMS tournaments to all leagues except LAW.

- Reduce legends damage bonus for first retirement to +1. Most legends are doing too good, a lot of this is due to the game knowledge of the player of course.

- New players in a league will still have a very hard time in tournaments. However it have always been this way and I think that is fair enough.

- Will this mean that the top players will not dominate the top league. I think so since the top league tounament belts is already split out between different players.

- Wrestlers getting old and a stat cap. It should not be nessesary with the way the stat increase is made and the listed changes.


Changes to be done in first 2 weeks of the new year.

These changes affect experienced players and new players. Please post any comment you might have.

The optional changes might be implemented. I am waiting to see whatever feedback this post gets.

- A new league for wrestlers with more than 4k exp and new tournaments for this league. If anyone have a good name suggestion let me know.
Reason: There is too big a gap between high and low sswo players. Because of this the new sswo players do not join tournaments.

- Legends no longer have damage bonus in tourneys.
Reason: Legends and normal players are in the same tourneys. The legends have a too easy time in the tourneys and non legend players are discourage from joining the tournaments.

- Wrestlers will now grow old. At some point their stats will stop to increase and will start to decrease no matter how many experience they have. Every time you retire your age will be reset.
Reason: More realistic. Forcing players to retire. Making the game more even.

- Legends that have gone through all styles can retire and go through all styles again.
Reason: There was a limit on how long you could play vow. This limit will now be removed.

- Reducing the number of wrestlers required to start a tournament to 4.

- Adding LMS and table tournaments to some leagues.

- Reducing the legends bonus so you need more retirements to achive the same bonus.

- New move-texts. I will make another thread about this.

Please post any comment and feedback you like.

Hope you all had a merry christmas and will have a great new year.

Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2005-12-28 21:22:33
The changes look good. a new league is necessary as there is too big of a exp. range once you hit sswo.

growing old is also an excellent idea. it will even out the playing field.

only needing four players to start a tourney should be implemented.

Adding LMS and table tournaments to some leagues. this also should be implemented.

Reducing the legends bonus so you need more retirements to achive the same bonus. This defineatly should not be implemented. it takes so long just to retire once and you already have limited the legend bonus in the tourneys. and as a one time legend. the bonus isn't that great to start with.

peter. thank you for the work you are putting into vow.
Post by: Coneman(325)
2005-12-28 21:31:09
Holy hell, you actually listened to the suggestion I sent in :O Or maybe that ageing/deteriorating thing had been planned before? :\

They sound good except reducing the damage bonus, it took me like 8 months to retire first time as a donator, 8 months of work deserves something decent :\ I know some people retire faster/slower..but then again some people (those that buy a heap of ap) retire three times in the time some of us retire once so it might help with that..

Anyways it sounds good
Post by: smoke(126548)
2005-12-28 21:45:24
These idea's sound great!

Except like those other guy's said.. the damage bonus should stay in my opinion.
Post by: woodgiebabes(72740)
2005-12-28 21:47:35
i like it, mostly because at 3200 exp i dont enter tournyd for the exact reason you pointed out.
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2005-12-28 21:52:41
Name the new league the "Venerable league of wrestlers"
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-12-28 21:59:51
Personal opinion: Pointless changes only asked for by lower players.

This may sound biased as I have two legends and a double legend but this will now make VOW a lose:lose situation for a lot of people.

The legends have worked for a long time (usually 10 months at a time) in getting to retirement, and to have their bonuses taken away in tourneys is just pointless and makes retirement worthless. Even to have it reduced is bad enough.

Having the stats fall after a certain period means that the number of SSWO will fall a lot once these ideas come into place, and I believe that a lot of people will just retire and quit. Also, falling stats would mean that the new league would be like having LAW against SSWO (if some people decide to play to a higher level).

The only change I agree with is the removal of styles limits.

Honestly, where is the good in these changes?
Post by: denzil(82151)
2005-12-28 22:08:26
Hi Peter great move and its a good idea the age thing. the extra leag is a great idea too. the extra matchs in styles is very good too. lowering the starting rate to four for pwo or better is ok but the lower leages will not need it. getting to old age the masters leag sounds good. I worry about ppl winning the tournys with just 4 ppl in it. it is know challange.+ the price for winning will give too much money away. 5K to a winner and in 2 Days he does it again. i know i will be in tournys for that no problem. How about a leag that turns up just for vets. legands.
some ladys i know would like a his or her opshion as well. it your doing the match text again may be girls can be intrduced in to the game.

good work Peter.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2005-12-28 22:30:29
leave all the bonuses in place for sswo legands. thay have earned it. or make legend tournys so thay can fight in there own leag with full stat bounus. but since your able to be a ten time legand you will have to look at the bonus. like leave the first bounus and when you go around fully in your styles you can get the next level up in bonuses.
Bubba gets +3 for the first. then +1 per every one after.
try +3 for legend as is. and after you get all the way through you get +2 again. so Bubba will get +5. then around again a full 5 times. +2 again=7.

it seems fair to me for the work he has done.
is age going to be based on exp or id number. some ppl are very slow. they will be penalised if there 1 ap per 10 min will not get them to sswo\leagend.

Post by: Limerick(56750)
2005-12-28 22:39:02
Sounds everyone else though, I don't think legends should lose their bonus in tourneys or have it lessened...
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2005-12-29 01:34:27
I still won't retire.
Post by: tbragu(97303)
2005-12-29 08:24:37
Ummm.... I have a slight problem with this. Why should there be a league for higher experienced SSWO if you are going to try and force retirement by implementing age?

The very description of this game states that it is open-ended, meaning you never have to retire. This makes a it a little unfair to someone who is really attached to a style and a character, it is encouraging them to quit, not retire. Maybe a good comprimise is to reduce damage slightly, or increase injuries slightly for a character who has a very high exp. At that point, their fame should be high enough to easily cover the cost of injury after a match.

I love that people are going to be able to play all styles a second time through if they so choose, however.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2005-12-29 10:47:51
Once you see the deterioration of your stats Brian Allan, as Im thinking you are already way above the limits that Peter has in mind, YOU will retire ,lol.

But, the suggestions are good ones. I see no reason why someone whos retired (a veteran) would enjoy destroying the hopes of the "lesser" crowd by using their damage bonus to own all the league titles (thats available to their style). I was asked by a "vet" what experience did I have to make statements like that...LOL to you sir. The day I started playing this game, I had as much right to make suggestions as you or anyone else. I have also donated alot of money to keep the game free.

A new league is good. Reducing legends bonus so they have to retire more for the same as now....I will agree that is not necessary, as the tourny restriction on bonus should be enough atm to balance things.

Adding LMS and table tournaments to some leagues...good idea.

Reducing the number of wrestlers required to start a tournament to 4. Definitely good for SSWO, and some of the slower SPWA tourneys.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2005-12-29 10:50:23
Why should there be a league for higher experienced SSWO if you are going to try and force retirement by implementing age?

New = 4k-say 7k

That means anyone who doesnt want to retire after 7k will feel the effects of the "deteriorating stats". It is a plan to keep the juggernauts from owning the league, thus evening the playing field.
Post by: Captain Stupendous(38517)
2005-12-29 15:52:35
Instead of giving legends a damage bonus, why not give them discounted move prices? In real-life, a wrestler coming out of retirement would only need a minimum of effort to work off the ring rust and relearn his/her repetoire of moves, correct?

Implementing a feature like this will give the legends a decent advantage in the early leagues, but will allow non-legends to catch up as time goes on.

Not only is this fair for everyone, but it is also reflected in the matches we watch on television.
Post by: provost(25123)
2005-12-29 17:06:33
Nix to the Age factor. You haven't implemented other "realistic" suggestions, like minimum Fame levels for various leagues, so why introduce this one? If you're trying to drive more experienced wrestlers out of active wrestling so the junior SSWOs can enter tournaments and stand a chance, the new League of Legends (LOL) should do just that.

Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-12-29 17:49:48
tbragu has got it in one if you ask me. If you were to implent these changes (and personally I bet they will whatever we think), maybe run a close ended version of VOW aswell as the open ended version of the game. This way, it has the best of both worlds.

Also, what is the point in having 5 tourneys per league (6 in SPWA and SSWO)?
Post by: denzil(82151)
2005-12-29 18:42:03
If you whish ppl to go higher in exp add a new league every 2.500 exp. So the masters will be at 4500. and grand masters at 7000 exp. Some where in there is a good time to throw in the age factor and may be even death if they get too old.

Leave the legend bonus in place please.

Rumbles need to be improved too.
The option to go into a rumble and have it league spersific or open. There are many people whish for this. Then have it as money or ap to enter as a option.

It would be nice to have the option of setting your healing to money or ap only or leave as default. This way the non donators can use there ap on matchs. Not on healing as much.

These are tings i have listened to in chat. and some of my own thoughts too. Thank you for letting up give imput Peter.
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2005-12-29 19:10:02
Comments in no particular order to what you wrote:

Firstly whenever there are changes some people do just not like them. I guess change is against human nature :)

- Growing old will be based on experience not action points used.

- It seems that many of you do not wish to reduce the legends damage bonus. This was mentioned as a optional change meaning that I had no idea how the general population would feel about it. What I think might work is to give the same damage bonus for the first few retirements but reducing it from retirement 3 and onwards.

- Cone I do listen :)

- Brian Allen you won't retire :)

- It is mentioned by atleast one player that he thinks that removal of legends damage bonus in tourneys is pointless. If this is not done how do we make tournaments interesting for the 95% of the players who have never retired ?

- Having your wrestler being a man or a woman is not a good idea if we limit who can fight who. There is not enough players at all times of the day as it is and some tournaments runs very seldom. You can roleplay your character as a woman if you feel like.

New league name suggestions (please come with more):
- Venerable league of wrestlers

Happy new year
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2005-12-29 19:23:21
Some people are afraid of change...and speak as though they represent the majority. How long has it been since the last league was made? Or the last MAJOR change? What timeline do you suggest the game go by before changes that will improve the game be implemented? Years?

The only negative responses that I have seen about these changes, adding those here as well as ingame, are very small. There have been just as many experienced veterans say they like to see the changes, as to those opposed. Truth be told, the only people ingame that have complained about any change to the game, are experienced players that stopped playing VOW actively; are seldom ever seen in the SSWO tourneys; and this is under the system that they are now fighting to keep "as is".

The fact is, games become stagnant and repetitive without modifications on a regular basis. I see NO evidence to prove "allegations" that there will be a mass exodus from VOW if these changes are implimented.

"Nix to the Age factor. You haven't implemented other "realistic" suggestions, like minimum Fame levels for various leagues, so why introduce this one?" Minimum Fame? Are you saying that even though someone started playing a year ago, but hasnt been active for like the last 3 months, they should still enjoy a "minimum" Fame level?

"If you're trying to drive more experienced wrestlers out of active wrestling so the junior SSWOs can enter tournaments and stand a chance, the new League of Legends (LOL) should do just that." So your saying that the regular 8-12 players (consisting of around 4/5 juggernauts)OUT of the ENTIRE SSWO league that do SSWO tourneys are more important than the rest of the league? That we should HOLD UP the game for these players because they "threaten" to leave if they dont get their way?

Last time I checked, Peter was in charge of things around here, not a "small band of self absorbed ego inflated" players. YES, I AM ALL FOR THE CHANGES. But if Peter should end up scraping the whole thing, THEN SO BE IT. I'll either deal with it, or leave. But you can be assured that I'm not going to come in here on the Forums and attempt to strongarm the OWNER or scare the playerbase with ideas of a mutiny. I will continue to speak up here, because I have seen positive responses from the "larger" portion of the playerbase, agreeing with Peters suggestions.

Have a safe and happy New Year !!!
Post by: yadlow2005(86957)
2005-12-29 19:51:42
Suffice it to say I am in agreement with all changes. That's right, all changes.

Age factor makes sense. As wrestlers grow old, skills will grow rusty. It does not mean they will not win matches. It means they are less likely to dominate on all levels without consequence.

Tourney damage bonus, this is a tough one as ethics dictate that one's hard work should be rewarded. But, how much reward? Since, neither of my characters have retire to legend and experienced said bonus, my opinion does not count here. But for all, fairness, tourneys should be on a level playing field as bonus in regular matches should be enough. Removing the tourney bonus might encourage some to join tourneys. also, it may lessen the temptation for some 'to live'solely in tournaments continue wrestle in the general population.

Here is my suggestion for a new league name and it is the following:

"Ring Masters Wrestling Organization'= RMWO

"Semi Legendary Wrestling Organization"= SLWO

One point I have to think rings true, how much higher can you go past "Super Star" without being considered a "Legend". Maybe change the idea of 'Legend' to 'Hall of Famer'. I do not know.. but i do like RMWO. :)


Post by: Coneman(325)
2005-12-29 21:08:42
In reference to the age thing..

I play a online football manager where they have this deteriorations in players, example as a player gets older he doesn't train as much and requires coaching assistance and CAN lose a some of his skill.

Saying that ageing will get rid of the open endedness I guess is a point, but I'm relatively sure your deterioartion/age will be a slow and gradual thing, much like gaining a higher max level...

If that makes sense :D
Post by: gruchul(66928)
2005-12-29 21:13:35
First of all, I'm for most of the changes. The only one I have a bit of a problem with is ageing. I think there should be a level where stats can't increase or decrease furthur, rather than just a constant drop. People shouldn't be forced to retire, but they should be no better than an SSWO at 7k experience.

Of course, it's all well and good saying this now, but I need justification, right? Luckily for you, I have a good one: Ric Flair. You don't need me to tell you he's old. Ok, he's not quite what he used to be, but guess what? He still holds his own against the younger generation and has captured the intercontinental title recently. If you're down and out, that would have been quite some feat.

Summary: Have a peak, drop maximum stats a little at some point, but allow these wrestlers to still be competetive in whatever league you put over SSWO.
Post by: woodgiebabes(72740)
2005-12-29 21:35:55
i do agree with some changes. For example, i like the idea of splitting up SSWO tournaments, i would wait till i am at 4500 exp before entering one otherwise. I feel the tournaments atm are in someways restricted, as pretty much the only ways of us lower SSWOs winning are by 'lucky pins or subs' (which i guess knowing the infamous Woodger Luck might suit me, actually)

I also like the idea of age affecting wrestlers, but as long as it doesn't get too extreme in stat reductions. For example, if BA never retired and stat reductions kept on happening, he might be getting back to SPWA levels of stats.

New Tables and LMS tournaments should be implemented as well, and i like the suggestion to change rumbles, so the option of open or resricted leagues is in place.
Post by: ricklax313(83849)
2005-12-29 21:57:35
If you want people to be able to retire more, why not make it easier to keep and make money. Maybe set up a bank thing for VOW guys where they can put money in to make interest so they can be able to purchase the moves faster and thus retire sooner.

As for the age thing, all I would say do about it is that it would be easier as they got older to take some injuries or even start to decrease their vital life after they hit 10k experience by like a set percentage a day as everyone's fame does. A good side with the aging that you can put in effect is the ability to have more fame or maybe even take away they decrease in fame entirely after reaching the 10k mark.

With the new tournaments, I don't think it would be such a good idea unless you put a maximum to the number of tournaments you can be in at a time. This way we don't have guys like Brian Allen and any of the other Super Veteran dudes holding all the titles. But other than that it seems pretty cool with me.

With the legend bonuses, there should be a choice when he or she continues of whether it be a price cut on all moves, even the special moves, like say by 25% from current prices. The other option is the bonus, which would be tournament usable, but minimized during tournaments. Maybe even change the whole damage bonus system 4+ first retirement, 3+ next, and until it goes to 1 and then it stays a 1+ each retirement with endless uses of a style so you can maintain the style you love.

And a New League? Fair enough, but why not have a whole restructuring of the divisions. From 0-150 Exp the newbie league, 150-300 LAW, 300-800 SPWA, 800-2000 PWO, 2000-6000 SSWO, and then 6000-10000 the Veteran Star Wrestling Organization, and then from 10000+ WCW. Sorry had to put the poke on how WCW used to be but the 10000+ League should be the Legendary Superstar Organization. With retiring getting you in the Hall of Fame, which would be buying all the moves and making it to the top league. Also, if you restructured the divisions you could make it that those in the newbie league cannot enter the tournaments. That way, it'll make sure newbies develop before getting themselves beat down mercilessly.

That's my opinion. Probably a silly opinion but one nonetheless. Thank you all for your time.

Billy Styles
Post by: denzil(82151)
2005-12-29 23:15:30
1. The lady part in my previous post is ment to just ad a his or her tital in game. No extra matches or any of that extra stuff to do with girls. I do understand about RP Peter and its cool if you donít whish to do it too.
2. Like the age idea. Itís your game and you will implement it how you think.
3. I am not Fust if you take the extra damage bonus away from the legends in tourneys. Your choice again.
4. I would like to see the legends keep there normal damage bonus in game. You may have to modify it to suit. Itís your call again.
5. If you do take it away the cheaper moves seems fairer to the new legends.
6. I think the leagues format is fine it needs one or two more leagues to top it off. I think by looking at the top 10 first legends there experience was between 5100 & 7000. so that to me gives a good premise that 7000 exp would be a good point to set the old age stuff. Then the new league at 4500 exp will allow low sswo to have a chance in tourneys. This is just my thoughts and take it up if you like.
7. Healing with more options like just $. Or A.P only. And defalt if you like to go that way too.
8. Rumbles. Are fun. The choice to do a league rumble through to a open rumble I have herd ppl ask about. To be able to set a rumble to a league. Then I would like to be able to enter with ap or $ or both like healing. The last point here is my idea.
9. to link a stable to there players so it can get cash to go to its stable. So I can set the rate of donations to my stable too. As a automatic payment. This will bring intrest into stables in your game. They do not do any thing apart from sit there and get dust. If there is a stable war the stables get doble the pay from VS matchs
10. Generating chars should be just set stats to start. This way newbs are not under done when they come in to vow. Give them good stats of cours and less ap to start. Like 1500 ap for a new char. And start them on doctors level 2.
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2005-12-30 01:24:35
I personaly think the best and biggest improvement you could do to the game would be to get rid of all the staff except for doctors. it would get rid of alot of fighting and bickering in the chat.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-12-30 01:56:11
Or go one step further and get rid of all the staff full stop - did old school VOW no harm.
Post by: Tarin(118208)
2005-12-30 02:17:55
I'm a new SSWO and I still won't join tournaments mostly because I'm an xp player and not a fame/cash player. But oh well.

The main problem with this changes is that they're not really new features and more like game balance adjustments.
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2005-12-30 03:56:40
I see no problems with the changes really. I mean, yeah, it is realistic having the stat reduction at a point where you do gain a certain amount of experience. As someone already said though, it shouldn't be to extreme levels. People should have that right to do whatever they want with their characters and shouldn't have to be forced into retirement, especially when you've spent about 15 months building him up to that point only to restart over again. The bottom line is that I can't see BA being anything but a tech, and it'll stay that way no matter how extreme these stat reductions get.

As for a league name? Veteran Wrestling Organization (VWO)
Post by: Dinkus_Warrior(50201)
2005-12-30 06:22:42
Here are RVD420's thoughts of these individual changes:

1). New League of 4k+ers

Alright, all for it. Let the n00b SSWOs have their own league and elevate us true greats :)

2). No damage bonus for legends in tourneys

Nah, they should keep them IMO. Why else would there be a reason to retire if there wasn't this incentive of being able to win and climb back up again faster? Everyone knows the tourney belts help with fame and money, along with the tourneys.

3). Geriatric Wrestlers based on experience, will lose stats and not gain anymore.

Disagree with this one, basically because of the decreasement part, but instead offer a different suggestion - higher experience wrestlers run a higher risk of getting injuries in a match, no matter their docter levels (like one getting like a -1 or -2 stat damage on 80 damage to them when they have 143 con or something). All for capping the stats though...BA doesn't need to be uber godly :)

4). Legends can now infinitely go back through all styles

I agree with this one, but know I will still feel the pwning wrath of BG sometime again...I have to keepo showing the officers where on the doll he beat me severely

5). Reducing tourney requirements to 4

AGREE AGREE AGREE! The non-Tech style tourneys like never run ever in SSWO, and would be a great thing to get those going again. Htae waiting a month just to scrub out in the first round.

6). Adding LMS & Table tourneys

Once again, meesa agree. More title chances for people and to be able to build better :)

7). Reducing legend bonus...

They've worked (and/or payed for it :P) for it, let them keep it. It'd be like taking away the golden football part of a Super Bowl trophy and replacing it with a nerf football...not good.

8). New move texts

Does this mean Tiger Driver will be described right instead of like a dragon suplex? Neutral on this one, will wait to see these ina ction to make a comment on them

As for league name....League of Extordinarily Old Wrestlers (LEOW)

-RVD420/Hank Justice
Post by: booyaka619(144976)
2005-12-30 06:33:09
I like all the changes but I think there should be Tag Team Tournaments and Tag Team Titles.Also, a good addition would being able to watch the match that we are fighting in.And a good name for the new league could be either BWAA Best Wrestlers Alive Association or NCWO No chance wrestling organization.LMS and Table tournies will be good.

Post by: thedynasty2(106975)
2005-12-30 07:48:52
I agree with all these changes, becuase with tourneys around, and the likes of BA, tajiri and jason chambers ect. they are more likly to win the tourneys, but with the new league and the aging thing, this will let other wrestlers shine.

and i think the new league should be called supiore wrestling league
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-12-30 08:15:21
More chance of getting Brian Allan to do a webcam striptease than having tag tourneys implemented.
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2005-12-30 08:34:50
If that happend then you've died and gone to heaven/hell. More likely heaven though. ;)
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2005-12-30 12:53:41
2). No damage bonus for legends in tourneys
Nah, they should keep them IMO. Why else would there be a reason to retire if there wasn't this incentive of being able to win and climb back up again faster? Everyone knows the tourney belts help with fame and money, along with the tourneys.

Example to show this isnt the case : Joker(20321)

I apologize for picking on you man, lol. But, you are an excellent example of why the statements above are with fault. Theres going to be at least one Legend who doesnt care to "climb the ranks faster", instead stops doing individual matches and "sits" on the xp gained from tournys. This has an extreme negative effect on the PWO league. He seldom loses in tournys and when he does...its usually another Legend that does it. At this rate...Joker will own the PWO league for another month. Tournys should be for everyone to have a chance to shine...not just Legends with a huge advantage. Take a look at the HUGE difference in the attendance in tournys from LAW to SSWO. Since I started playing, PWO tournys are seeing a decline as well. That might just be my view.

As for a league name? Veteran Wrestling Organization (VWO)

Sounds simple enough. I'll vote for it.

Age factor?

If you dont implement "something" like this...then you havent accomplished much with developing a new league. All you have done is allow a juggernaut to dominate a smaller crowd. VWO will end up with the same dilemma as the SSWO has now. Infinite retirement keeps the idea of open ended gameplay true.

Limitation on number of tournys joined at one time/titles held :

You could put a cap on how many tournaments one person can be in at any given time, and or how many titles that they can hold at any given time. If you implement these "caps", then I would agree that a "reduced" bonus for Legends in tournamnets would be ok. How much of a reduction could be discussed and approved here in the forums.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2005-12-30 12:58:39
Forgot, lol...Tag Team Tournaments

As this is a great idea, I'm not sure how much work it would be on Peter to make real. If this suggestion ever reaches the light of day on Peters "To Do" list, I agree that there should be one tourney in each league. This could also be one of the tournys that has been suggested as an addition to the leagues.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2005-12-30 13:03:53
Post by: denzil(82151)
2005-12-30 17:21:22
1. Hi all fame is a funny old stat. most ppl in game never get above 350 because there not donators. The ppl that do get the bonus is people in tourneys. If they work it out. As well its very good to have ap to do it. I do believe there has been a payment cap set so you can not get overly large pay outs because of fame. It would be nice to have a fame platow that pwo get to and can not go under. Eg like 200 fame.300 sswo. 400 for the new league. Law and spwa have lots of matchs to help them through the first two levels. I do not see fame as a problem at all. The loss of fame to a min point would be fine in my books.
2. stat Cap has been tossed out there in to the mix. I do like it too. As well as extra stats been damaged too because of age. Itís a good point as well.
3. legend bonus I believe most ppl are happy with. I donít mind at all my self. They all have done the hard work. Let them keep it. I am not so shure for tourneys. It might bring the legend players back into the game instead of just doing tourneys.
4. 4 ppl for tourneys has got positive feed back in my listening.
5. kill the staff and there will be lots less problems in chat for shure. Been able to log on and not see youíre a staffer. Bla bla. It would be great to get rid of it. And it will be a thing to take off the front page.
6. I.R.C chat is all adds. I have looked through thema and there is some good stuff. But it needs to be renamed. Blind ppl can not use irc in game any way with our readers.
7. Tag team matchs in each of the tourneys sounds great.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-12-30 17:46:51
Brody: It is true that Joker (myself) might dominate PWO for a good month, but look at the facts. At every point in the 2 years of VOW, there has always been somebody dominating the rankings and tourneys. Scorpion is one of the best examples - as he was always dominating at one point, this is one of the reasons why VOW reverted back to a 3 league system (hard to think it was just 2 leagues at one point). Gatch dominated PWO just a few months ago (didn't see nobody complaining there - must be because people "love" me), and Brian Allan dominated (and still does to a degree) SSWO along side Bubba Gump.

You just have to think, all the time I have Joker sitting there, he isn't getting better. He isn't buying moves, and one day, somebody will beat him - it might be by a quick escape, but someone will beat him - heck, you beat him in a match once Bruiser :)

Side note: I'd personally like to see what a non-donator thinks about the ageing/"forced" retirement idea.
Post by: madeles(83025)
2005-12-30 19:52:47
In my view there are several things I like the idea of. However forcing a character into retirement? I agree with Brian Allan. I have gotten so attached to my tech I couldn't retire him. If I continue the donation I will retire the others though.
Post by: gruchul(66928)
2005-12-30 20:35:25
You asked for it LK:
I'm a non-donator (Vex, if you didn't already know) and I think forcing people into retirement is rather unfair. I've been playing this game for almost a year now, and don't think I'll be in a position to retire for 2 or 3 more months.
But, assuming I continue playing as often as I do, it would take me until May or June 2007 to get back to where I am now (which, as far as I'm concerned, is the most fun part of the game).
Another one and a half years to get back to the end-game, and with retirement bonuses being lessened, it's seeming less and less worth it.

Summary: Retirement for non-donators is a lot of time and, with the proposed changes, for little gain.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2005-12-30 23:06:20
This was my worry about non donaters getting a stiff deal. I donate for some ppl in game i know and like to give them a tast of what its like. Your right on time and fun. its also fun haveing more matchs too with 2 times the exp. This is why i dont like to see the stats for legends to be changed but its not up to me. Peter makes the calls and will he panda to ppl like me that donate or help the ppl that play for fun. thats the 64 thousand $ ?. I dont mind ether way he goes. I would just like to say i started as a non donater and i know what you mean.
Post by: madeles(83025)
2005-12-30 23:23:21
As one of the people Denzil donates for, I would say that in my first 7 months I wasn't a donater and it took me that long just to get to SSWO. I can't imagine I'd retire as a non-donater, Vex is right.
Post by: edge(146113)
2005-12-31 00:00:08
i have an idea to the new League how about Legendary Wrestling Organization??? good changes but i didn't like very mutch the age thing!!!
Post by: Dangerous Man Dan(107858)
2005-12-31 00:05:12
Post by: Dangerous Man Dan(107858)
2005-12-31 00:08:19
Yo all i dont comment much on the forums but have seen this and have decided to add my opinions even if you guys couldnt give a monkeys what i think its cool everyone has there opinions.

- A new league for wrestlers with more than 4k exp and new tournaments for this league. If anyone have a good name suggestion let me know.

My Opinion: I like this idea to have tournys for the higher players us new sswo's get owned alot by the higher guys so i think it will encourage more to enter the tourny for definate.

- Legends no longer have damage bonus in tourneys.
My Opinion: Fair do's for this one. gives everyone an even chance in the tournys. I hope they keep there bonus in normal matches tho cos they have earned some reward for retiring.

- Wrestlers will now grow old. At some point their stats will stop to increase and will start to decrease no matter how many experience they have. Every time you retire your age will be reset.

My Opinion: Really dissapointed with this one im afraid, i could only see DMD ever being a PG. Im so gutted im gonna be forced to retire my character and it will probably be the end of DMD. Because i have worked real hard on my character for a year and now he's forced to retire bloody rubbish! Cant you come to a compramise in some way? I mean Ric Flair still does the job and so does Hogan, so why cant an older player still fight a younger foe and come out victorious? I know you wont listen but forcing players to retire is harsh and is a real dissapointment Peter.

- Legends that have gone through all styles can retire and go through all styles again.

My Opinion: Thats cool for the people like Hick Bob and Bubba but they should get some recognition for that achievement!! Like reduced move cost or a bonus of some sort.


I agree with all the optional changes and look forward to seeing them implemented. I guess my gripes with being forced to retire cos my character will end up useless.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2005-12-31 00:22:43
My 2 AP:

Tourneys for table and LMS
4 players instead of 8 to start a tourney
New league for wrestlers with more than 4K XP
Legends who retired all styles can get to do it again: I think you should give more incentive than just +1 damage if they want to play all five styles again.
New move texts: check for typos and grammar before you use them. Some move descriptions should also be corrected.

No legend bonus for tourneys: how about a compromise? Legends keep one third of their damage bonus for tourneys.
Degrading stats over time: I don't like it, but what would be the rate of deterioration?
Post by: slangi(11441)
2005-12-31 02:39:28
I've always been known as a harsh critic and I have just 2 things to say. It's ironic peter chooses to show hes alive after I click the nic elittle detach button so my 2 years of work go down the toilet regardless. And Secondly I still don't regret the decision because these are changes for the lesser crowd which has been a major nuisance and problem and all peter does is appeal to them instead of really digging deep to benefit the game...and I speak for everyone else that doesn't want to speak up. Once again VOW gets all the wasted attention of stupid changes that aren't really going to make much of a difference because its stil lthe same people playing it. And yet his more loyal followers are forgotten not only on christmas but completely ignored in his other games who are proud to support him and have been for 2 want to change VOW find a way to bring back all the people that cared about it back from the dead and interest them again...otherwise just treat it like your other games...let it rust and get buried in the sands of time to be forgotten and done with eventually...its time to start spreading your attention equally...
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2005-12-31 05:44:54
PPV Wrestling
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2005-12-31 06:55:53

A big LOL. Last I seen, when you entered PWO, you had over 50k to spend on moves....and looking at the results of 95% of your matches, all being singles, your opponents suffer hella damage...even for a singles match. You arent going to "suffer" any deterioration anytime soon from "sitting" in the tournys. If Bruiser got a lucky win in 1 of 10 tournys against you, even with like 500+ xp more, I would hardly call that a "successful campaign", lol.

slangi :
To speak for all those that dont for whatever reason, is an admirable thing. BUT, if people dont start speaking up for themselves, then they dont have a right to complain or suggest anything in private. I have stuck my neck out for what I beleive could make VOW better. Yes, that meant getting the cold shoulder from vets that once were friendly. Yes, that meant receiving rude emails and PMs telling me to shut the hell up. But, I stuck to my guns and have shared my thoughts. As should you and the others continue to do so.

When I first sent out random PMs in the game "throwing" out some suggestions, one veteran in peticular told me that I was wasting my time and then proceeded to question my right to make them. Wasting my time? (REPLY to that gentlemen) Maybe if you would drop the negative attitude, and send Peter some proposals in a clear, non-threatening, and "respectful" manner...he may take what you're saying seriously.

When I first started playing, I was always hearing in the chat (grim) that the majority of players detach before they get halfway through the PWO league. Why? :)

The few good online games that "dont" have a reset point, face a common issue that plagues VOW, today. How can you keep things as even as possible, when there's no cap in the xp of the game? What do you do with behemoths like Brian Allan, when they are so far above the majority of the playerbase? How do you reward them for their long dedication to making their char one of the best chars to ever play the game? Brian Allan and Bubba Gump control most of the SSWO titles MOST of the time. Will this trend change with the new league? No. It wont change unless you come up with a way to balance the power. As I see it, only a small % will eclipse say 8k xp. So, how will making an AGE Factor effect the game negatively as a whole? It wont. It will effect the small % that wants to hang on to the same char year after year. The stability of the highest league should not be compromised because a small few wish to grow the same char into a Behemoth. Brian Allan has like 20 specials. I cant see him ever having a money issue or worried about stat deterioration, lol.

I believe that people who reach retirement should get some kind of a bonus...but not to the point that the majority (mostly non donators) should be at a great disadvantage from.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-12-31 07:15:34
Woah, Scorp IS still alive - Duane said you vanished off the face of the earth :P (or maybe the alcohol life in Spain is better than VOW).

Maybe a small compromise for legends bonuses could be this:
The bonus starts of at the +X (X is dependent on the number of retirements). In LAW, your bonus is at its greatest, whereas in SSWO, you have more moves, and so, the bonus is at the lowest.
OR, you could do the reverse, and gain more damage with increased exp/stats.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2005-12-31 08:22:46
in answer to Post by: slangi(11441)
2005-12-31 02:39:28

I hear some funny things in game. Complaining about doing nothing to games. Well I play ad fame. It has been revamped and itís a lot better for the new places and stuff. Gang war I play too. I have seen lots of suggestions for the game. But the owner is the person that makes the over all choice in game on changes. If you donít like it donít play it and move on to something you do like. There is a theme of the game gang war. Its simple easy and fun. If itís the space game youíre complaining about well I have no idea on it so I will stay quite on that one. Did you know that last post sounded very threatening? I my self would not pay any attention too you if you spoke to me like that. I think we are lucky to have some one that does give stuff. Every time I have needed help with stuff Peter has been there and fixed it.+ serves us in every way he can. So be great full he runs it and not a money hungry freak like lots of games now. Remember itís free. If you like it that way. Support it or leave. Very easy. So many ppl think they can do better. Itís a very narrow mind that thinks he can do better.
This is my thoughts for the day. Thank you for listening.
Post by: slangi(11441)
2005-12-31 09:12:47
in regards to denzil its also a very narrow mind that doesnt see how this doesnt help VOW in the slightest in the longhaul for shortterm maybe but I honestly only see 1 or 2 things that will stay good and look good in stone 6 months to 1 year from now i said my criticism was harsh as a warning before i posted said thoughts therefore in your best regards just dont choose to comment next time
Post by: Tarin(118208)
2005-12-31 11:04:21
If you take away the legend bonus for tourney's. In an optimal situation legends won't get any challenges. Why would you ever challenge a legend when you can challenge a non-legend at the same xp? And legends could no longer get matches against the same xp people with their advantage because they no longer have to force people to fight them by entering tourney's.

So how about people get more fame for beating legends. Like a multiplier, you get 1.2more fame for someone who's retired once, 1.3 for a twice retiree, etc. That way people have an incentive to challenge legends.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2005-12-31 11:37:49
Here's my opinion. I like most of the stuff here, except maybe growing old... What if you can't buy all the moves by the time you start growing old?

About lessening the dmg bonus... I think first time retirees should get the 3 dmg bonus, and then each time after that it gets a little lower with the bonus. Say first time you get 3 more damage, second time you get 1-2 so you'd have 4-5 dmg bonus if you retire again.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2005-12-31 12:03:37
League name suggestion: Seasoned Veterans Association (SVA)
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2005-12-31 12:05:49
Sorry double post
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2005-12-31 12:11:29
WAIT... I have an idea.

What about getting rid of retirement altogether, and give the dmg bonus to certain leagues? Once you achieve the legend league you would get the dmg bonus, and the option of changing your style? I don't see how this would be unfair for anyone.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2005-12-31 12:16:49
The only problem with my last suggestion is those who've already retired, like myself... I know it could be a lot of work, but there aren't that many legends currently. You could give everyone their exp & stats back if you go with my suggestion?
Post by: provost(25123)
2005-12-31 12:48:30
Bruiser Bordy said: Are you saying that even though someone started playing a year ago, but hasnt been active for like the last 3 months, they should still enjoy a "minimum" Fame level?

That's exactly what I'm saying. If we're talking realism here, then famous wrestlers are famous wrestlers, regardless of whether they fight or not. You think three months off fighting would make the great wrestlers less famous than a noob on a lucky streak of 3 fights, three wins? Their fame may drop off a little bit, but not below a certain point.

I've a post on the matter, two in fact.
Post by: madeles(83025)
2005-12-31 17:07:43
I make this plee to all the veterins of the game and to Peter. As I see it, the only contencious issue is the age/retirement issue. Can there not be a compromise?Someone, I don't remember who, suggested a closed version of vow to run alongside the version we know and love. I think that's a genius idea because it allows all the changes to be made that are suggested.

A good proportion could still be made for the open ended version too though.
Post by: Version 1(26732)
2005-12-31 20:18:05
I still think signature moves is the way to go, as in wrestling signature moves have a big influence as they help define the character for the crowd. I personally am bored by the new additions. I have a suggestion! Get rid of hick bob!

People get bored because the game is repetitive, and once you have escaped from LAW, SPWA and PWO, there is nothing to aim for. The tites are dominated by the person with the most real life money. The challengers are getting thinner, it's hard to find fights. There needs to be a new challenge. To change the way it works, it needs interactivity. Interactivity creates more and more options, letting people do what they want to build their character.
Signature Move
This would be a simple thing, very much like the specials. Instead of being overpriced and hard to get, this will be hard to buy. How it works...
Move Name: (the name of your move)
Move Description: (self explantory)
Move Difficulty:
So when you choose the different types, it has the different damges for each... so Hard to do is High damage, while being expensive. Pretty much self-explantory. How can these moves be implemented with the current system?
Simple. Add a new attribute called Charisma. Charisma is the basis for Signature moves. Charisma is around the middle-ish of how you want your stats, as charisma is mostly needed in a wrestler's career. So if your charisma is high, you will have more chance of hitting your signature moves!

Modified Moves
These are modifications of moves...

Ie, you have a menu thingo with drop down thingo.

Modifications: Double arm, Side, Fisherman, German, and it goes on. This way there is alot more moves to buy.

I don't really like the modification moves myself... but would still add more to the game.

*cough *
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2005-12-31 23:21:05
So how about people get more fame for beating legends. Like a multiplier, you get 1.2more fame for someone who's retired once, 1.3 for a twice retiree, etc. That way people have an incentive to challenge legends.

Sounds like a good idea.

Signature moves :

Sounds like something worth exploring. I'll vote for that.

Closed version of VOW :

Sounds like a great idea, risk splitting your current playerbase to two Versions of the game. Perfect example of this : Dominion online. The owner of this game did the same idea and split it. The playerbase for the Classic game fell DRAMATICALLY, thus killing any growth. I caution you to reconsider this suggestion at this time.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-01-01 12:50:54
So I have been asked not to post on your comments in game or about what you say. I donít think so. Itís a chat post and I will have my say if you like it or not. I felt strong enough to say my peace on the mater. You are aware. I am not your child to tell what to do in game chat or forums. So I move on to gaming thoughts.

Two games! Good Idea but I can see the game loosing out because ppl will faver one game. So that road will be Peters call for sure. If it does happen I will stay with the currant game as is + modds that are added.

The extra stat is a good idea too. Crisma.
Give all the old retired chars max Crisma because there already there.
And the players that are still going will be just like every one else. Having to max your stat Crisma in its own time.

so i will not be Intimadated by the way. its open chat ! thank you for your time! cheers all . and happy new year too.
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-01-01 14:07:04
sigh i warn you about criticism denzil its not an oipen invitatio nto knock it because you dont like what someone ahs to say their input about the game and quite frankly you did go o nthe warpath when you shouldn't have this is about game changes...the split it in 2 once more its a genius solution for the shortterm but wheres more longhaul thinkers like version 1...he gets it so free the poor guy for cryin out loud a signature move thing is a good longhaul change because i've been stressing time after time this game is rotting due to lack of interaction all these changes are good shortterm solutions but 2 months from now you realize wow hey its the same game just more annoying...thus more people quit...more people get moody...and the decay rate increases instead of i ask once more think really hard and come up with longterm goals for the greater good of not just the game but the community in general as a whole because face it the game is nothing without its community...yes people should be able to speak their mind and not get attacked for it because other people are too dumb to just not read or keep playing the game and feel the urge to play saint i know many people that have this current issue and its typically unsavory and isn't helping at all self gain no not really you're just idiotic for trying to act like you're serving justice on words in a window...freedom to speak the mind without being assualted for it should be 1 thing considered everybody has their opinions and opinions shall be respected they dont have to be agreed with but for the love of good get off your high horses and start respecting them quit giving me this baby garbage about morally right and whatnot....I have spoken
Post by: Version 1(26732)
2006-01-01 19:34:45
Here's another idea, more of a revamp of VOW.

Now, fame is more important than Experience. If anyone watches wrestling they clearly know that fame is the most important thing in wrestling, because if you aren't over with the crowd (famous) then you won't get titles or nothing, you'll just be a flat out jobber. Now what I think should happen is the fame is within a set limit. Say it goes from 1 - 1000. If you are at 1000, you are at your'e peak. But if you get beaten lots... you'll drop, so it'll be a constant struggle to stay within that top area. This makes VOW more fun, because it provides a never ending challenge, as people will have to consistently pump out the good results, rather then just buying all the moves and clicking the challenge button. Now the Experience bar is still in play, and is still unlimited. But at a certain point, like the new addition the the game, experience will evantually drain your wrestlers skill. For example look at Ric Flair, he used to be considered one of the greatest of all time. Look at him now, all he ever produces is crap matches with a few exceptions in gimmicked matches. Then there is a whole new thing. Charisma. Charisma is pretty obvious as to what it is, and similiarly to the Fame, it has a limit of 1000. In a match you can win about 1-2 charisma, and if you lose 0. Same goes for Fame. Another 2 things that are new:

This is where you can invest some of you're wrestlers money to make MONEY of of that. But in order for it to work well your fame has to be at a consistent level, so if you lose some fame in the time that you release some merchandise, you might not even get money back at all! But if you invest and then your Fame rises... you could be making the big $$$$.

This is basically an extra boost for your charisma. Each promo that you buy (which is basically a time on the TV, ie when they have interviews, stuff like that) you can improve your Charisma. And now because you have a new Charisma Stat(like Aerial, Strength, etc) to cover for the Signature Moves, your'e promo's poplularity can be changed.

Fame Structure
In order to make the game realistic, fame improves from GOOD matches, rather than just winning them. The more damage you're wrestler takes in means more Fame is given to you, but it also depends on you're oppenent. It is similiar to the Expereince at the moment. If you verse a low famed wrestler, don't expect much fame back. But if you wrestle against a wrestler with a lot more fame, you will recieve a lot more fame. But if you lose, there is a good chance that you won't recieve anything at all. In wrestling, it is not often that the fans will side with a constant loser. What effect does Fame have on the matches? It helps the wrestler reasonably. If you face someone below you by a bit, they still have a good chance of beating you. If you verse someone who has like 0 fame, then there is barely any chance of them winning. But now, Fame only drops at small rates due to inactivity now, because it usually doesn't take fans long to forgot a wrestler ;)

Experience is completely different now. Every match you +5 to you're Body Strength. Every time you train, you add another +1. But now in the Training Area, you can train you're Body Strength, which can remove some points off of your experience, but only to a certain extent. It WILL take a long time before you're wrestler will be forced to retire due to injury from too much wrestling. Because wrestling careers can run for lots of years (20+), you will have a good run with the character.

I'll post more on anything else I missed there soon...
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-01-01 22:32:30
Hi all. I really like your idea in the last post. I look forward to hearing more.

Well I better clear up some thing here. I donít dislike you I donít hate you. I just did not like your tone of chat in one post. If you whish to keep poking and carrying on child like its ok by me. I do not intend to respond to your taunts. I do agree with a fair amount with what you have to say. I am sorry if you took offence but I have a right to speak my mind too. I have thoughts and statements I whish for ppl to here. There is one person that can make it all. I just make it known just like every one else. For e.g. the duel game set up sounds totally great. But I do not believe there is enough ppl to make both games run and then we have none. That is my point. Like the last post on how to revamp the game was cool. But you may hate it. I donít mind. Itís your call.

So I will leave it with you to respond if you whish. Or I hope your big enough to here my criticism of you and move on. I intend to.

Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-01-02 02:06:39
denzil the tones are just misunderstood and taken wrong a lot i nmy case man thats why i msaying dont go on the warpath I'm a peaceful person im not as idiotic as you label me to be and I'm not that childish either I'm a complex individual that takes years to figure out by getting to know and very few take the time or have that privilege around here is my point some things just cant be shared and have to be far as version 1's post I like the angle but from a standpoint this game has always had a fictional/fantasy appeal to it like peters other gems...thus its virtual instead of realistic I don't think i'd enjoy copycatting an actual wwe match when i can sitthrough 1 hour of commercials and 1 hour of action and get my fill of that...we need more flare...more impact...thats good ideas if we doa duel version for a close ended game but that splits our very low player base as is and wouldn't we need mroe longterm suggestions for an open ended VOW that takes place over time not immediately rust out...the tournaments yes a mild change but it gives people more flexibility to choose from 4 people minimal signing up again a good idea but adding onto the idea how about making the current champ unable to enter the tournament altogether that way they cant consistently dominate it and others feel they can try their luck or at least win the payout at the end...also on tournament notes any champs that lost their belt ina title defense have them sit out for a run or 2 to keep it competitive and not 1 sided aka youre keeping it virtual but the simplism is if youre a champ and you lost the belt you gotta earn that shot again and simply beeing a shoo in i nthe tournament just wont cut it and peeves off many people...please by all means capitalize o nthis statement and add to it
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-02 08:42:36
Again, some more good ideas about how the tournament format should be tweaked so that all can have a fairly decent chance at winning them.

Limitations on how many tournys one person can be in at a time.
I like the "delay" factor of champions. Makes people play individual matches more if they want that Fame to stay high.

Champions cant enter the tournys they already own the title for.

These mods could possibly take away the option of restricting a Legends bonus in my opinion.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-01-02 13:58:17
I was in chat a wile ago and 6 new laws came in to game and had lots of ? of course. Some one told them where the Manu well was and 1 red it. 5 got killed. Some said there should be a Manu well for the game. I had to laugh. But if for new players could you set up a multiple choice questionnaire with a paragraph with all the data about the ? below for them to read before logging in. 4 right questions correct will do. To give them access to the game. At least they will be better than lots of new players at this time.

Tournys there is some good ideas above.
Can yu re enter into a tourney if you hold the belt. I would change that if it was me. But lots of ppl enter all tourys to get exp and some fame and know there is no way of winning the tourney. Itís a quicker way to get exp and fame. So why would you ban ppl from doing more than one tourney. If you hold all the belts well its different then isnít it.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-02 16:41:37
There's already a system in place to limit how many tourneys a player can join at one time. Donators gets twice the AP of nondonators, so they can fight more regular matches before 05:00 server time. That's a big reason why Joker and Gatch captured all the belts: yes, the damage bonus helped, but they also had more AP for fighting 3, 4 matches almost at the same time. They did spend hard-earned cash for it.

Nondonators have to be more conservative with how they will use their AP if they are fighting in multiple tourneys, and I don't think there has ever been a nondonator who has managed to hold all the titles in his league at one time. I certainly doubt we'll have a lot of nondonators competing in all the tourneys once the changes are rolled out (single, ladder, cage, table, LMS, wrestling style); there's just not enough AP to go around.

I'm not sure if keeping the sitting champion from competing in his tourney will work. Some players are happy to just sit on the belt and wait for the next challenger, especially if they are about to be promoted. With the right moves and a little luck, their title reigns last for weeks.

Then again, having different tourney winners would be a compromise. Yes, they could all very well just lose to the defending champion, but at least they got their tourney prize money and fame.

As for the VOW manual...just add a "VOW Manual" link to the options bar.
Post by: Aeon(121545)
2006-01-02 17:27:35
I hate to criticize, but expecting the manual there to answer the questions of a new person is really...reaching. In all honesty, the manual isn't that good and doesn't explain any of the true intricities of the game.

Someone should elaborate on it and expand what the manual says and not just describe what the buttons do, as it does now.

I would like to see more places to expand your add places where you can put in details, flesh out your wrestler. The male/female option would be great.

Have more uses for Stables. At this point, there really is no point to them other than something to put on your stats.

Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-02 18:27:22
As far as I can see, people are just trying to force the better players to move on faster, first with this "forced" retirement idea and now this proposed idea of stopping champions entering tourneys.

I can see a flaw in the ideas of having a set number of tourneys allowed, and also, there is one major flaw in not allowing champions to re-enter tourneys:

1. If there are 5 (6 if you include style) tourneys, and you can only enter 3. What is to stop you winning 3 of the belts and entering the other 3 to make a set of 6. There is enough time in PWO to win 3 belts and have a long reign, so what's to stop you going for the full collection.

2. If you are basically a demi-god of a certain league or match type, and/or you own all the belts of the league, you can just sit back and relax - not solving the problem at hand.
The fame and money gained every day from belts isn't that significant anyway, you have to have multiple belts for a significant fame increase (I think the fame per belt is 20 fame per belt per day and just $50) - although, I think some people would rather sit on a title, as they get money and fame without the risk of having money taken away - especially with the LAW belts and SPWA titles in which the tourneys can last anywhere near a week.

On the idea of helping noobs, there should be a team of VOW helpers - this is an idea I've seen in other games, and it works well. Basically, you choose EXPERIENCED players (we need some way of organising this sort of idea), and put links to their ingame PM in a list - this helps to stop people confusing the new players, or have a dedicated chat or something for helping new players.
(Personally, I'd like to be a part of this sort of helper's group)
Post by: BALLA2K4(31390)
2006-01-02 19:16:40
Well...I stopped reading the forum because it was usually nothing but garbage smack talk and BS in here...glad I decided to read it again since I was bored, and couldnt find anybody to fight me...BTW...these opinions are one of a NON-DONOR..who was formerly a donor (by winning a contest not money) who will be a donor again sometime in the very near future...

First things first...New league for wrestlers with over 4K exp....this idea SUCKS...I can rarely get a good match NOW as it is...making a new league will make matches even more SCARCE than they are already...New tournaments...hell...I have held the SSWO SN title for damn near 2 that time I have ONLY defended it THREE TIMES...soo...we get a new league, with higher limits, thus less people, and I hold my title forever, because there wont be enuff people for it to ever run...

Second new idea: Legends losing their bonus in tournies...HORRIBLE idea once again...Legends have worked long and hard to get to the status that they have attained, and they should get to use the perks of retiring throughout the ENTIRE game, not jsut certain parts of it. Anybody who says that it makes the game unfair is full of it. Again, as I said above, I have held my title for 2 months almost, with three successfull defenses...Each defense was against Black Demon, who is a LEGEND...I still have my what says that legends have this great ability to not make tournies fair for everybody else...if this was so, I would have lost my title 3 times already, but that is not the case. Legends get to use a damage modifier in regular matches, they should get to when it comes to holding the belts as well. Why take away something they worked so hard for...HORRIBLE IDEA

Idea 3: Aging wrestlers. I can honestly say this idea doesnt affect me one way or the other, as I plan to retire my wrestler as soon as I buy all the moves. I have a suggestion that may make this move less harsh for players such as BA and DMD who dont want to retire because they like the style their wrestler is. Why should you have to come back as a different style. Honestly, I would love to bring back balla as a SN again, as I like this style. I will retire anyways, because I think it will be more fun to come back up the ranks than to fight with BA for number of specials able to my point is, people dont wanna retire because they like the style...dont make them change styles if they dont want...Let BA retire and stay a techie...let DMD retire and stay a PG...that will solve that problem

Change 4: Re-doing styles after retiring 5 times...good idea, that currently only 2 wrestlers will have affect them...but I like the idea above about not limiting the styles better, then this wont be an issue.

Optional Changes: I like all of these, except the one about reducing the legends bonus. I think at the current time, its a +3 damage bonus for being a legend one time, which it should stay. I dont think the first retirement should change your bonus, but I think on recurring retirements after that, you get less of a bonus...eithe rway, doesnt really matter to me, as I will fight anybody anytime regardless of legend status or EXP its wutever.

Thats all I have to say for now, and I am sure I will be flamed by some for this post, but quite frankly, I dont care...I have my opinions just like them, and honestly, I dont know why some people here have even bothered to stick their noses in something that doesnt affect them wutsoever...meaning those players who are BANNED from the game and those who play other games...go away and quit messing with progress...find something better to do with your time than screwing with what we do to occupy our time
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-02 21:08:43
The VOW Newbie forum has a thread or two covering the usual questions new players ask. That info should be made more readily accessible than what we have right now.

Then again, there will always be people who don't bother reading the instructions first. That's why people still stick their hands in food processors to see if they're still working.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-03 00:25:23
But when you have some *insert appropriate adjective* people (no names mentioned) going through the forums posting either pointless posts and/or insults towards Hick Bob, then it's no wonder why people never come on the forums and so ask pointless questions on the chat.
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-01-03 00:49:11
This is very interesting reading.

A few comments:
- I am seeing why the aging thing might not be so good as it sounded to me at first. I think it is still good though. However it should be balanced so players can keep playing forever without retirering but also without being unbeatable. I belive I can implement that without problems.

- Two versions of VOW. This will not be done. Splitting the player base will have horrid effects.

- Legends damage bonus in tournaments. It is still my belive that removing this is a good idea. I have not read any arguments against this that pursuade me othervice.

- New league contra tournemants never running. I think this will not be the case if we reduce the number of participients needed for starting the tournament to 4 and remove the legend damage bonus. We would probably not put style specific tournaments in the top league.

- Letting people retire and choose the same style. This might be a good idea, however I think damage bonus should only be applied once for each different style you have retired as.

Happy new year
Post by: Tarin(118208)
2006-01-03 01:00:05
Argument against removing legend bonus in tournaments:

Let's say you're a legend PG who's bought all damage moves. There's no way you're going to be able to get people to fight you in cage matches except in tournaments. So, it's either fight a suboptimal match type or lose the damage bonus to play the character as intended.

If Legends lose their ability to fight certain match types with their bonus intact than their should be a replacement that gives an incentive for people to challenge them in their ideal habitat.
Post by: Version 1(26732)
2006-01-03 01:17:28
yo balla homie sup dawg dont be disrespectin playa dig wha i sayin
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-01-03 05:04:00
Sheesh the way this is going we're better off arguing don't change anything and put a VOW 3 in the works...ok ok seriously the chosing the same style as you retire would be cool in all honesty that way people get their +3 and they're happy to be the same style but more efficient for those gritting it out and enduring all stories perhaps more incentive for them doing it somehow..the retirement thing is cool and all but it just loses its appeal after a while once youve done it and realize it doesn't realy make a huge difference unless you've bought your way to a 4th retirement then it becomes somewhat significant..otherwise its just way too time consuming I propose remove staff in general and just either provide a natural doctor protection from injuries or my second idea on this is...add ina hint of realism like a toughness factor like youve foguht so many matches and gotten creamed its harder to hurt you even if you lose badly because you've toughened your body up to take the pain and pushed the limits...the retirement thing perhaps consider removing it all together and coming up with something a little different because as it stands its just buy all moves and become a trend wrestler a jack of all trades with a different style advantage why not really dig into the surface of wrestler types and flesh them out more like capitalize on what an aerialist is good at and not have them do ridiculous stuff like airplane spin drops the many different suplexes etc etc

and on a side note we're breakign the surface and getting somewhere here guys lets keep throwing in feedback while we have a chance to get it out and our thoughts o nthe table...the good and the bad regardless of what happens...less people will complain with the end results with this progress
Post by: Div(17156)
2006-01-03 08:43:33
Ive wanted this to be implemented for a while.. and still think it would be a great idea - Being able to change your wrestlers name after you retire

I brought this up a while back about got over 20 people saying they agree with me and no one said it was a bad idea, I know ill get a few people saying "Just detach" but i dont want to give up an account ive had for over 2 years

And i think alot of people wouldnt mind a change of character after they retire
Post by: Coneman(325)
2006-01-03 15:21:12
I'd still dearly love to get rid of that crappy 3170 at the end of my name :(
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-01-03 18:18:03
Hi again. Some good thoughts in game there I see. I am happy that Peter can incorporate the Age thingy safely.

Renaming a Legend is cool with me and it all so would fix the problem if you just want to play teck or Power Grapple all through your gaming life in vow is a good thing if you whish to do it too. There are some classes I do not whish to do my self. I do like teck PG and Stiffs. The others will not be played and I to will end up like B.A. so what to do there?

Tourneys are great and fun. I fight in all tourneys at once when I am in spwa and pwo because it gives grate fame even if you only get half way through the tourney. I have never held a set of belts in my life too. But if I held a belt I would not be unhappy to not be able to go in that tourney until I lost my belt. I see no problem with this. 5 titles and I own all five. Apart from been way cool I would be happy just to defend it until I have been defeated. I would re enter straight away to get it back like any hot blooded wrestlers. In the mean time I still play in all matchs in vow. Ppl that know me see me in game all the time. I would even buy ap if I needed to continue to hold my belts and still play in game because I do love the chat and friends + the matchs.

To add to tourneys in the no legend bonus which Peter says he will implement I know for a fact what its like to fight a legend which was 400 exp lower than me and we had some totally cool matchs. I was a pwo. With Con the Fruiter back then and as soon as Gatch got with in 100 exp of me I was winning 2 out of 10 matchs but he was a team mate so I did not mind. He took the belt and I had 3 attempts at trying to get it back with no luck. This might open up the field a bit. I did enter into the sswo tourneys just to help it get a move along. Out of 3 I went in I got to the second round once against Balla. It was not worth my time entering until I hit 4 k in exp I believed. So tourneys are a waist of time for low sswo just like low pwo ver 801vs 1900 exp pwo. If you get my meaning. This is my experience in vow.

Helping newbs. Well a link in your char to the
Player manuwell might help.

If you believe the player Manu well has faults there is a thing called wikky peadia which could be a collaboration of all vow members to help make if you have the right writing skills to help. There is a administrators of course. So vandals will not be able to stuff it up for the masses. To help on the front of Manu wells.

There is some chat about a sub match only too. any thoughts on it and may be a pin match only too?

I do believe in open chat. It is not the place to get on some ones recommendations and tell them there wrong. It is just a idea for Peter to look at. So be nice guys. Ok. Come on. This is not based or ment to afend any one just a observasion. Leave ya egoís at home Boys!
Post by: madeles(83025)
2006-01-03 18:58:12
I still believe that there are many things that have been brought up which are fantastic ideas. The idea of carisma is a great start.

Why not couple that up with toughness. You could end up with someone like Chris Benoit or Kirt Angle, men that have taken pain but are still way over with the fans, be it as heels or faces.

Tweaking the aging is a good idea too Peter. I personally am firmly in the same camp as BA and DMD. I worked hard to get James Madeles to where he is and have grown used to his style. I can't imagine him as anything else.
Post by: The Sniper(27754)
2006-01-04 03:49:48
Fine with everything myself, except the deterioration of older characters thing. I as The Sniper will never be anything other than an aerialist, and will not enjoy the game if I do.

I have spent a year and a half getting my character to the point I can retire and the primary reason I haven't is because I would have to change my style. If my character begins to deteriorate I will have to retire forever losing the charatcer I have worked so long and hard on. If I could remain an aerialist I would have no problem, but I can't.

I have to say with full honesty the second my character begins to deteriorate I will retire and then I'll be gone permanently from VOW.
Post by: The Sniper(27754)
2006-01-04 03:53:37
btw - Why not label this final league Elite Superstar Wrestling Organisation or something

Post by: the n3w era(30824)
2006-01-04 04:15:53
OK, ive read the ideas, and some of the responses, and ive got to say the new leage for people over 4000 exp sounds like a very bad idea. It is already broing being an sswo because of the lack of people in the league, I dont see how spliting the devision up will improve the situation.

Also, Currently there are only 36 people who have more than 4000 exp, which wouldnt make a very exciting league at all. Another point worth mentioning is that, even with this new league, there will still be a huge difference between the top and bottom people in the new group and pretty soon, they will complain too. 4 groups should be enough, if change is necessary, then why not change the exp boundries. (law stays same. Spwa 250 - 1000. Pwo 1000- 2500 sswo 2500+)
Post by: Mad Bear(46310)
2006-01-04 04:43:06
None of the "Decided Changes" really do anything for VOW in general overall. It only involves a small portion of VOW that will be vastly affected by it.

1. Still will have those that will not enter tournaments. Still because of EXP gap.

2. Legends no longer having damage bonus in tournaments. I'll vote that it's a bad idea, because it takes months to retire. I don't see any less participants in tournaments that have a legend participating.

3. Wrestlers will grow old. Some people do tend to get attached to their wrestlers. Instead of losing stats, why not try to cap stats or something along that line.

4. Go Bubba Go!

Optional Changes.

They make more sense then all the above Decided Changes. I would rather have a reduced legend bonus that is allowed in tournaments then having it null in tournaments.

These are my views.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-04 07:01:57
Maybe giving the person who retires the option of how he has his damage bonus. Whether he has it based purely in tourneys, or purely in non-tourney matches, or even a split between the 2. I mean +3 on it's own seems a lot, but when you split it 2:1, the effects will be greatly reduced - it'll be just like fighting a PG more or less (but the extra damage applies to all moves).
Post by: yadlow2005(86957)
2006-01-04 09:51:22
Amazing... I see two things that seem to get some in an uproar and they are the following:

1. The aging factor

2. The legend bonus in the tournaments being removed.

I still favor the aging factor for no character should live forever unaffected. No matter if it took days, months, or years. A character will reach his end one way or another.

Second, the tournament bonus for legends should not be required in the new league of tournaments since the absence of said bonus will probably not effect the outcome for stronger characters anyway.

I just say give it a chance and see where it goes.

Post by: Mr x(159696)
2006-01-04 12:17:15
why not put in a search thing like you have for the wrestlers id's and name and make one for speacial
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-04 22:57:10
How about revising the retirement system so a player can retire and immediately come back as his original style?

This would give players a more positive incentive to retire, since they no longer would have to give up their wrestling style. Sniper can become a legend but return as a LAW aerialist, at the same time make way for the junior SSWOs to step up the ladder.

If you are removing the limit on retirements, then it would make sense that players have the option to come back right away in their first style, instead of forcing them to play a style that does not appeal to them.

It will not affect gameplay, as the damage reward system stays the same whether you retire 4 times to play all 5 styles, or retire 1 style 4 times. The hospitals will still receive plenty of business either way.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-05 16:44:56
I agree with lifting the limit on retirement and allowing a person to return with the style of their choice, even if its the same one that just retired.

Im still against damage bonus in tournys.

I dont agree with the assumption that a new higher league will deplete the SSWO base. Theres alot of people who just stalled in SSWO because of the overpowering giants. I feel that "semi active" SSWO chars will become more active once the power structure is equalized.

And to the doubters of change : The mods to VOW probably wont see significant results in the first few days, or the first few weeks, lol. It will take a little more time than that to get everyone educated to all the changes and how those changes will affect them on an individual basis as well as the whole.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-05 16:51:41
I forgot : someone mentioned earlier that there is a cap on how many tournys one can participate in, or something close to that.

You are wrong. The PWO league tournys at this moment are a perfect example to prove you wrong. Some names can be found in ALL 3 PWO tournys. Even the current champ for each title is in all three tournys. The limits that were suggested, would not allow the current status to be...especially for champions joining the same tournys where they hold a title. Its a suggestion to try and equalize things a bit, and give more people a reason to participate in tournys.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-05 17:33:23
1. What is the problem with entering the same tourney that you hold the title for - the term "fighting champion" comes to mind.

2. A lot of people rely on tourneys to get a fame or exp boost, especially when the number of fights that you get accepted is next to none (thus why Joker is fighting in all tourneys).

3. If you held all the PWO titles, you wouldn't exactly complain.

4. If these changes do come into effect, then I will consider moving Joker up to SSWO so he doesn't have his bonus nullified in tourneys.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-05 22:46:54
Joker holding all the PWO belts proves my point that there is a cap on how many tourneys you can join...or should I say, your chances of holding multiple titles at one time.

It's the donators who usually get to hold all the league belts at one time, because they usually have the AP to heal up for 3 or 4 tourney matches at one time. There is no way a nondonator is going to be able to join all the tourneys (single, ladder, cage, table, LMS and style) because he just doesn't have the AP for all of them. I don't think there's ever been a nondonator who held all the league belts at one time.

Donators can afford to do this, and I don't have a problem with that.

Would there be so much of a stink about Joker holding all the belts if he WASN'T a legend, but just another wrestler owned by a donator?
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-06 01:39:55
It doesnt matter who is or who isn't a donator, when talking about the suggestions on changing the tournament format. When you see legends dominate the tournys most of the time, then the majority of the playerbase is detracted from wasting their ap to join those tournys. All I'm talking about, is making the tournaments more appealing to the majority of players who don't join because they feel they don't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning. Donators will always have a slight advantage in every aspect of the game. But its the legends who have an overwhelming and lopsided advantage in the tournys.

Again, any suggestions or modifications that I have endorsed here in the Forum has been for increasing the competition and evening out the power structure in hopes of making the game more appealing to the masses, not just to those who donate and/or are legends. Sometimes, in order to improve a game, the strongest people have to sacrifice a little to make things more actractive to the weaker ones. I'm a donator, and VOW appears to swing too heavily to donators. Im not a legend, but I do have a question for those who are : Which is more important to VOW...inflated egos or positive growth? 50 accomplishments to add to your stat page by the time you reach SSWO or increased activity from the PWO and above playerbase with a more competitive system?
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-06 02:03:44
Would there be so much of a stink about Joker holding all the belts if he WASN'T a legend, but just another wrestler owned by a donator?

Count on one hand how many times this has happened in say, the last 12 months?
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-06 02:18:45
Tell me then - what is the point of retiring if you get no benefit from it?
Post by: BALLA2K4(31390)
2006-01-06 03:37:04
I have to agree here...there is no benefit to retiring if you are going to take away the damage modifier in the tournies. the "goal" of VOW is to become the best wrestler. How do you prove you are the best wrestler, its not by fighting tons of singles matches against whom YOU choose, its fighting in the tournies where you can prove, that you are the best, even if its just for that one given tournament. You take that away, and you have more people saying, "the hell with retiring" and becoming like BA with 30 specials. What hurts more, fighting a Legend with a +3 damage modifier, or fighting BA with his 30 specials...which equals to what..about a +15 damage modifier...I would rather see a Legend with his bonus than to see masses of people running around iwht 30 specials
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-06 07:51:54
Tell me then - what is the point of retiring if you get no benefit from it?

Whats the point in giving someone who's retired an overwhelming advantage, to the point that they drive away the playerbase? Or have the majority of the playerbase detach before reaching SSWO?

I'll ask again : Which is more important to VOW (Not me or you)...inflated egos or positive growth? 50 accomplishments to add to your stat page by the time you reach SSWO or increased activity from the PWO and above playerbase with a more competitive system?

There have been several good suggestions to keeping a bonus for legends without compromising the stability and growth of the game. Why aren't you willing to consider "options" that would improve the gameplay for everyone?
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-01-06 08:15:07
Hi all.
1. Legend bonus in tourneys should stay. Well in my book any way.
2. The age thingy is a good Idea but a cap might do the same thing. To = out the playing field.
3. A extra league to spread the experience range after sswo is a good idea too.
4. The tow extra stats of Charisma and Toughness sounds like a great idea too.
5. The Legends been able to restart as any style because of love of a style type is good too. at least you play on in game and you donít have to go through the aging thing and get worried about loosing stats and every one moaning and complaining about your EXP. You will here less, ďso when are you going to retire?Ē I would get sick of hereing it!
6. Tourneys I believe that ppl are making a mountain out of a mole hill in this area. I entered into all 4 spwa tourneys. I hold the belt for the ladder tourney. So I entered into the 4 tourneys again. To see if I could try to pick up a new belt too. No is your answer, I got K.O in the first round of each tourney. lol. If I was a legend I may have pulled it off. But know. I am just a donater which loves playing the game. So I re enter of course. I have no problem with not been able to re enter my ladder tourney at this time. Itís a good idea. I I needed 76 ap to heal in R&R after the 4 matches so I needed to fix 7 stats in total as well. So tourneys are not for the week at hart if you whish to enter them all. This is first hand exp talking here. Please think of the money spent on healing and making no money too because every one runs full staff. If I was a non donator 1 tourney would be smart. I enter the for tourneys to get my fame up and it works too. I have 1000 fame with my char. So by all means take away the option to re enter in to a tourney I hold. It will be one. If you see my point.
7. take away the extra staff and it will help the game with less problems in chat. I would still like the docs how ever. On or off would be good.
8. All of the above here are my thoughts and hopes for the game and good luck Peter in working out a smooth choice in what ever you do I intend to stay on and learn about it and enjoy the changes. It is a game and the ppl are great here. so dudes no bitterness here guys. Cheers all. Have fun and enjoy the game.
Post by: BALLA2K4(31390)
2006-01-06 15:22:00
Bruiser, the advantage of Legends is NOT that great...and if you look at it from the view of their opponent, we actually have a slight advantage too. Sure, when they land a move, it has the CHANCE to be higher hit points, but when we counter a move, it HURTS THEM more than it would a non legend. As far as legends pwning all of the tournies, BA held all three of the SSWO titles for a LONG while before bubba finally pried them from him, and BA is not a there goes that logic

Again, if losing your retirement benefits for part of the game occurs, nobody will want to retire, as the benefits will not outweigh the months and years we have spent developing our characters. That would be like saying your gonna take special moves away during the tournaments...if I fight you regularly with your legend bonus, then I should fight you in the tourney with your legend bonus. YOU EARNED IT
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-06 17:31:30
If all the legends had a 99.999999% win %age come SSWO I could see some sense in removing the legends bonus - but I can't. Also, I have offered other suggestions if you care to read my other posts, but people just seem to ignore the idea that other players are offering a compromise.

What is the real difference between fighting a PG (1st style) and any of the other 4 styles as a 2nd style?

The idea of having legends was to reward people for gaining all the moves, and now this is going to be taken away. I've seen it all here in VOW and it has been unpopular changes which have detered experienced players away from VOW - and now I'm considering joining this group. For some people, it is OK to not have the damage bonus, as they either don't fight tourneys, or they can plough masses of money into the game, that they can go from LAW to SSWO almost overnight, regardless of damage bonuses.

Well, do what you want - I know that I'm wasting my time and energy trying to stop these changes and the new players have won.
Post by: BALLA2K4(31390)
2006-01-06 18:25:56
im with LK here...the bonus is not significant enough to matter that much, and more than anything taking it away is taking away what so many have worked hard to achieve. This will drive away those that have spent months and years to create a great character, who in turn retired to get the benefit of retirement, only now to have that yanked from under them. As I see it now, I probably wont retire BALLA, because I have worked over a year (because I am a non donor) to get him where he is at, and if the legend bonus is lifted, there is no reason for me to retire...BA...ima be joining you in the ranks of 10K + exp soon bro...if I dont quit first...glad I waited to make my donation until after these changes were disclosed...newayz, im done with this topic... I have given my point of view, and made a suggestion or two to make things better as far as the changes go...we shall see what happens
Post by: the k(38357)
2006-01-07 02:38:57
whad he say? brody's callin the guys with most xp a "small band of self absorbed ego inflated players?" bubba's selfish and holding everyone down? tajiri tarantula's selfish? capt. stupendous wants a glass ceiling? sniper is an egomaniac? the black demon just wants to squash you?

sounds like character assassination.

i don't donate, and i'm not afraid of legends with all their damage bonus. i've beaten them in tourneys. i've beaten them in normal fights. and i don't agree with getting rid of their extra damage for the reasons already mentioned.

i like the option of replaying your first style. i like the smaller number of players needed for a tourney. i'd like to know when this whole growing old starts statwise. 7000XP? 8000XP?
Post by: yar(35506)
2006-01-07 05:02:25
As i look over the possable changes, the one that sticks out as the most needed is the new league, i have made it to sswo 3 times now, and always detach because of the huge gap in exp and lack of reasonable matchs, I could care less about the other changes. i think the best answer without having to do any changes is just to reset the game, make everyone start over, everyone would feel like they had a fighting chance to make it to the top, i also know this aint going to happen, lol. i know you are just trying to make the game better, oh one more thing, i sure miss being a mod. lol
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-01-07 08:12:55
nah a reset will only prove that hickbob and bubba gump will be 1 and 2 from the gunshot because theyll throw down their royal flush (money) and shoot through the ranks and be uncatchable once again...which is why i stated think longhaul not shortterm
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-01-07 08:23:17
There's one change thats too late and none of you can stop it. Idiots are taking over and al lthe significant people have left the building...VOW is decaying and that will just speed things along...this time next year we'll be listening to complaints about why it died and where it went wrong. I can spell it out for you...the attitude of certain people...just observe whos running wild...observe which self absorbed noob thinks hes king of the world now...observe which womanizing trouble maker wa slet off the hook and still gets to play and harasses everyone that comes in his path...ok good...mesh it together...keep meshing and compressing....kaboom...oh no look what happens...thats my final piece you want to repair things the first step is to put the silencer ina correctional institution and step 2 is to remove joe bow permanently hes been spared way too much and shown way too much leniency benefit the community as a whole by eliminating the source of the problem that deteriorated it...
Post by: cartman(160386)
2006-01-07 21:34:53
why not at the end of every month some one at ramdom (exculding sswo's) is picked and is given 2500ap
Post by: JopeBow(66329)
2006-01-08 00:34:47
Hehe, Im gonna start a Joe Bow Hate Club... Who wants to be honoury life president? This thread is supposed to be a constructive thread not an area for people to bring personal vendetta's to the table... is it not?
Post by: Thor(146261)
2006-01-08 02:38:46
I agree with Joe...especially since Tsenn is a quitter anyway, he really did not add anything to the thread.

I agree with some of the changes...I think a new league would be beneficial so the guys with 2100 exp are not in a tourney with BA getting hammered and having their dreams of a belt shattered by the Reign of

I don't mind that legends have their bonuses, like some of the guys have said, they earned it by getting to the point that they could retire, so no point in punishing them.

The aging factor, I actually think is a good idea...guys do lose skill as they get older. I have simulation hockey leagues, where the sim engine will review a player season by season and adjust their ratings accordingly.

That is just my two cents, since I am not in a correctional institution as someone so blatantly hoped...someone should just stop Tsenn from posting, since he never seems to have anything of value.
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-01-08 03:12:07
Actually the genius of the value is it solves the problem of VOW longterm :D something everyone else failed to think of...joes had too many chances and he just harasses everyone it doesn't help the playerbase or community at all...proposed changes do nothing for vow i nthe longterm but the shortrun...stuff that young upstarts that wishes they were big The silencer being prime candidate a...absolutely adore these changes because a one track mind only sees it for the day and not down the road...not even changing the tounry to 4 people would be a good change...


well if youd been around long enough peter slayed money once for occuring too much too quickly...reduce the number of people needed in tournies? We have just hit another money issue yet again and the cycle repeats...yey wow we really got somewhere here right? seriously the best change eliminate the garbage clean up VOW Joe's had 50 strikes instea dof 3 he should be gone I even stuck up for the guy once but hes become intolerable and nobody wants to stay around when nobody constrains him...and chris ahhh chris the big bad silencer

the god of the ring no wait hes barely been here 2 months ohhh too bad noob that thinks hes great but has the wrong attitude so is still branded a noob...

its harsh but thats the truth you want to see even a hint of VOW in a year you have to kill the source of the problem and repair the community first there is no VOW if there is no community

ask yourself why is there only 14 people in this community at the moment and why can you count the people that dont caus eproblems on 1 hand? exactly

no more leniency for joe and correct the silencer in educational ways he has no clue the community of VOW the basis of comradery or how to play the game without trying to strike someones nerve we don't need that garbage
Post by: JopeBow(66329)
2006-01-08 04:41:15
So we can see tsenn want's to be honourary life president of the i Hate Joe Bow Club... *coughs* thought you left eric.. :s couldnt even do that properly i see.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-08 14:26:54
Bruiser Brody: Whats the point in giving someone who's retired an overwhelming advantage, to the point that they drive away the playerbase? Or have the majority of the playerbase detach before reaching SSWO?

May we know where is this player survey that says folks are detaching because they don't want to become SSWO?
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-01-08 14:30:55
actually a keen eye for details would tell you i left VOW not plitgames or the forums in general tsk tsk joe dropped the ball anyways staying on yeah more ideas definitely need more ideas for changes since all of these are crash and burn pretty much except the chosoe any style if you retire its sensible but its more sensible to remove retirement i ngeneral and come up with another bystandard...we need more...flare...more oomph...less joe ignore that last part its traditional to include a knucklehead in an eventful situation
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2006-01-08 20:40:02
hmm, remove retirement all together. that would be totaly unfair to people who have already retired.
I for one only retired for that legend bonus. if you take away that legend bonus or retirement altogether. I want my legend character back before I retired this would only be fair.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-08 22:45:35
That brings up an interesting idea. Can we have a detach limit or time scale between detaching a re-creating. We have had nearly 100,000 wrestlers created on VOW, and not even 4000 of these are actively played wrestlers.

VOW needs to looks at the minor problems first before looking at a larger picture.

The only reason retirement was introduced, was to reward people who had all the moves - but now this reward is being taken away.
Post by: JopeBow(66329)
2006-01-08 23:26:06
Eric you are just a jealous little child... a keen eye to detail would tell you that the thread is called VOW general... it is a talk about VOW developements... If you've quit VOW any of these changes will not effect you.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-01-08 23:46:54
So its all trash talk about people like Joe & Silencer. Give it up. I know for a lot of people in vow the are great men to know and play with . Like B.A James Blinky Drak Vamp BB OLMG and Heresy are all orsom ppl in game. Itís a shame that some people have made a total ass of them selves and are name calling like children like I said in a earlier post. But I digress from where we are. Vow right.

1.There has been some good stuff in the posts.
I like the age thingy as long as it donít stuff the game for the old vets.

2 leave the legend bonus in place please. They have worked for it. Let othere ppl do there own time in vow instead of a short cut.

3. New league is a good idea.4.5 k and up.

4. locking out title belt holders from there tourney matches. Good idea.

5. lowering the rate to four people in a tourney is good but ya must look at the money been made in it. Sswo making 5k every 2 days.

6. been able to re do any style after youíre a legend. Eg 5 time teck for the ppl that whish to go that way. Grand master teck lol.

7. get rid of staff and just leave docs. It will stop lots of head aks in chat.

uto payment to your stable to make it do something.

Up gradeing the opshion to heal with just money and not ap so you can get more fights or a choice of ap money to heal as I said befor.

So thanks for listing Peter.

Post by: yadlow2005(86957)
2006-01-08 23:59:27

A new league for wrestlers with more than 4k exp and new tournaments for this league. If anyone have a good name suggestion let me know.
Reason: There is too big a gap between high and low sswo players. Because of this the new sswo players do not join tournaments.

This is what has been decided. Yet, shouldn't the new league be those 2000 to 4000 exp as to get to Superstar is the highest a wrestler can become without being a Legend. As the label 'LEGEND' should not be bestowed on wrestler just because of experience alone. Just a point to make.

The leagues could like the following:

LAW- beginners
SPWA- 250 to 800
PWO - 800 to 2000
WWA- 2000 to 4000
SSWO - 4000 to infinity

Now, there have been pleas made to keep the legend damage bonus in the tourneys. I think one should really consider that point of view. No matter where the new league occurs and if the minimum for each tourney to start is 4 and the bonus remains, wouldn't it make it easier for legends to dominate the tourneys completely?

Thus, forcing many to do either of two things:

Work Harder to retire to gain legend status or not participate in tourneys because they feel they cant compete.
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-01-09 02:53:03
let me clarify denzil im not disrespecting you whatsoever dont read into that too much man im trying to help benefit vow as a longrunning player of it were o nthe same page believe it or far as joe goes i dont get along with him but he never knew what idid for main subject back to the game
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-01-09 08:17:30
I read some of this thread but im not much of a reader and Iím ill right now. Hereís what I think, since Iím a legend you should all respect me and worship my every word :p

- A new league for wrestlers with more than 4k exp and new tournaments for this league.
Less people to fight in each league. Could make another tournament in SSWO for below 4k exp. Shouldnít be a problem with the new league though as long as both leagues can challenge each other.

- Legends no longer have damage bonus in tourneys.
Sounds ok.

- Wrestlers will now grow old.
Great, but how old can they get? When they reach 80 odd will they be forced to retire? ĎYour wrestler has died of a heart attack. Please select a new fighting styleí 65 should be about the max. then they can no longer be employed by VOW

- Legends that have gone through all styles can retire and go through all styles again.
poor bubba gump and hick bob!!! Do they still keep their legend bonuses?

- Reducing the number of wrestlers required to start a tournament to 4.
- Adding LMS and table tournaments to some leagues.
May as well

- Reducing the legends bonus so you need more retirements to achieve the same bonus.
just get rid of the legend bonus all together, the age thing now makes retirement something good just so you can be young again and soon have a better wrestler.

These changes are solving a big problem for VOW keeping the game going but it doesnít help the older players who have gotten bored. Peter if you can please add a new match type to spice things up. I guess that even little changes take a long time to implement with them having an effect on anything else, but Iíd be happier if you added a new match type instead of these changes. Weapons match, a proper royal rumble, or a no disqualifications match would be great.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-01-09 15:33:35
cool thoughts Post by: Fangblast. a new match type is a good thing as you already posted. lol love new toys.

i like the exp range of the list that was written but i would like to see sswo stay where it is and the new league get top spot.
Superstars Wrestling Organization masters.

Post by: fantasywrestle(41396)
2006-01-11 00:13:15
a new match? like 70 ap for this new match?
Post by: Limerick(56750)
2006-01-11 04:56:30
It could be a super-duper chainsaw match with knives attatched...players keep playing until one or the other dies rather than gets knocked out...the winner gets $1,000,000 guaranteed...
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-01-11 07:12:56
Post by: Dinkus_Warrior(50201)
2006-01-11 07:19:47
I'd actually love the super duper chainsaw match idea...trick BA into it, saw him to death with the aid of my staff members, then take over Exit Light.....muhahahahhahahahahahha!
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-01-11 07:21:18
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-01-11 07:23:52
How about a Russian Roulette Royal Rumble?
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-01-11 07:25:56
Post by: tanya_r80(100278)
2006-01-11 07:59:30
I think that implementing age will drive alot away from the game. I mean alot of people are attatched to there charicters and styles. For me personally I'm looking forward to retiring. But I notice mainly people who donate hold on to the charicter that gave them a name in this game. I see both sides of this arguement... I know by implementing age your trying to avoid god charicters, but at the same time... If implemented that they only get weeker and weeker.. it's almost like punishing someone for liking the game...

As far as a new league, I think thats an awesome Idea. it gives people that work towards SSWO something else to look forward to, Thats another reason i feel people hold on to charicters is because, well for me. I'm a non donater and I have really struggled to get to SSWO, and I finally get it and aside from retirement whats left. SSWO is when your charicter is actually good. And you want to hold on to it.

I think new tourneys, and new text are both solid ideas.

taking away legend bonus in tourneys... Kinda feels like punishing people for retiring.. again i see your side that you want more people to actually join the tourneys so i see both sides of that and can't say a full opinion on it.

Unlimited retirement is a pretty cool idea, being that I love my style and want to be an air again down the road... and if there is a possibilty of a new style down the road that too wouldn't be a bad idea either,

IE. hard core even though i know it's nixed before i said it, Old School, such as old time wrestlers Roddy Piper, Loe thesz, Ed Strangler Leweis ect. Old School was a completly different style. The way they moved... Heck even the moves in the match. Such as The iron claw (the asian nerve hold) of which you take the thumb and jab it to the throat. The tomahawk (Over head chop) which is pretty self explanatory. Gourd Buster (face first vertical suplex) where you pick them up for a vertical supplex and instead of falling to your back you slam them on there face. I could go on and on with these... There also a possibility of teh big man style of which we have Andre The Giant, El Gigante, king kong bundy, yokozuna, one man gang, big show, Ect. They move slower that could be implemented however bigger and stronger.

and implementing weeknesses in all styles could be a way to avoid god charicters. Such as airs, they can miss and hurt themselves, Techs, More damage done possibly cause they FLUKEY and the counter everything. and subs, it takes energy to do a sub... so maybe that could be implemented again these are just ideas.


Post by: Captain Stupendous(38517)
2006-01-11 10:10:43
Wow! All this talk centered upon game balance is good! Having such an open dialogue is very, very healthy for the VOW community.

I am of the opinion that while legends and other behemoths like BA all deserve to reap the bounty that they have worked so diligently to earn, there is still an uncomfortable gap between the average player and the upper echelon of VOW. Aside from character-building and social interaction, spirited competition is one of the most appealing virtues of VOW as a game. Since the championship belts serve as the pinnacles of achievement in this game, what is the newly-annointed SSWO to think when comparing his/her lowly 2000 XP to the massive amounts accumulated by those who reside at the upper tier of the VOW ranks? I'm not even a legend (YET), and even I feel comfortable "no-staffing" the adventurous ones who challenge me and I always end up obliterating them completely. Even if these new wrestlers try to climb up the ladder as high as they can, they will never be able to compete on the same level as the folks that are sitting happily upon a mountain of XP. Therefore, unless something is done to balance the game, the quest for the SSWO championship belts is entirely hopeless for the newer players.

I am in complete support of some kind of limitation imposed upon players at the highest levels. However, I am not too keen on the idea of aging wrestlers.

Instead of having stats deteriorate with age, why not just implement a stat ceiling? There are stat ceilings in every stat-based game I've ever played, so why not here in VOW? This will allow people to catch up and compete along side the very best and is not as drastic as losing stats as time goes by.


Legends should be rewarded in some way for persevering long enough to reach the top and for helping build the VOW community. While I'd personally be a bit happier if the damage bonus was weakened a bit by say... 1 point of damage, it doesn't look like there are enough complaints to warrant a change in the game to address this issue.

However, if I were VOW's lord and master, I'd change the legend bonus in the following way:

As it stands now, the legend damage bonus has a probability of being applied to any move, normal or special.

Instead of giving the legends an all-around damage bonus, I'd give them reduced special move prices. I'd also allow them to spend some cash to refine any specials they possess. For example, a legend could add a few points to a special's hit percentage. He/she could also spend some cash to add a consistent (as opposed to probable) damage bonus by increments of 1 or 2 points to a chosen special.

This seems like a decent compromise between a universal damage bonus and no bonus at all (in tourneys).


I'd also like to be able to rename my character post-retirement. I probably wouldn't do it when my own retirement comes in a few weeks, but I'd like to have the option to do so in the future.


Ok, here's one more radical idea: Tournament Crowd Momentum.

Before each title match, wrestlers can vote in favor of one of the combatants. The winner of the popular vote would gain a +1 damage bonus on special moves. Some additional text during the title matches would spice things up as well.

"The crowd is booing Captain Stupendous! The disgust in the air is so thick, I could cut it with a knife!"

While the winner of the popular vote gains very little individually, this change would prove to be an asset to both the role-playing and community-building aspects of VOW.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-11 16:41:12
Quote: "Instead of giving the legends an all-around damage bonus, I'd give them reduced special move prices."

What about if you want to try and retire with just 1 special?
Post by: The Sniper(27754)
2006-01-11 19:45:28
I think we are overlooking one important fact about Legends. They have done it before.I know for a fact that if I were to retire now I would do a heck of alot better with a new charatcer than I did with this one. I'm not saying the Legend bonus doesn't help, but the most effective tool in a Legends arsenal is his experience.

In all honesty the development of your character is the deciding factor as to how well you do in the game, and new wrestlers simply don't know how to do it.

My 2 cents basically saying the Legend bonus doesn't have an as huge effect as you might believe ;)
Post by: Coneman(325)
2006-01-11 20:31:36
Ripping off LK's post..

Quote: "Instead of giving the legends an all-around damage bonus, I'd give them reduced special move prices."

I hardly buy specials so why would I want a lower special move price?? Specials are overrated and I'd rather keep my 5k or whatever it'll cost you (depends on your patience) for a special and put it towards buying 40 moves or whenever I have enough money to retire..

So legends need a bonus that will actually help them decently after retiring at least 7months of work
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-11 23:43:52
Well, I made the "suggestion" about the legend bonus in tourneys to get everyones creative juices flowing. And it has worked so far. That "suggestion" was made to try and give some balance to tournaments. I dont feel that because someone has played for years and worked to retire for the bonus should complete dominate any league. When Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, or Hulk Hogan were at their prime, di they dominate by holding ALL the titles? Did they even try to do that? NO. I understand everyones concerns about taking away the bonus in tournaments. I understand that someone whos retired should have a "slight" advantage over someone who's only been playing a few months. But where is the logic in allowing someone who's retired any number of times to be so dominate that their presence scares away the competiton? The "survey" that someone was asking for can be found in every tournament of PWO and SSWO right now. You take a look at the names in the SPWA tournaments going on at this moment. Then in one month, track the activeness of all those names and tell me how many are actively playing and how many actually made it through the PWO league.

I have seen many positive posts about how to balance the tourneys and the game. I agreed that there could be a modification, or reduction on the bonus in tourneys as an alternative to just taking it away. LOL..I never said I was "stuck" on the idea of making legends do tourneys without their earned bonus. Just make them more balanced to increase participation.

VOW CHAT : The atmosphere in chat has deteriorated since the mods were reset to just hick bob. I think that Peter should take a few days and seriously consider reinstituting a group of mods back into VOW. I honestly cant see how hick bob finds the time to play the game with so much time spent investigating complaints. When he's not online, chat is nothing less than CHAOS alot of the time.

New/Old Question : How does everyone feel about adding a Tag Team tournament to the PWO and above leagues? And should it be league only teams, or go by total xp? *** I suggested PWO and above leagues because they are the leagues that need more participation/activity all around.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-11 23:49:11
Post by: Captain Stupendous(38517)
2006-01-12 00:19:24
Captain Stupendous:

Instead of giving the legends an all-around damage bonus, I'd give them reduced special move prices.

The Legend Killer:

What about if you want to try and retire with just 1 special?


I hardly buy specials so why would I want a lower special move price?? Specials are overrated and I'd rather keep my 5k or whatever it'll cost you (depends on your patience) for a special and put it towards buying 40 moves or whenever I have enough money to retire..

So legends need a bonus that will actually help them decently after retiring at least 7months of work


I was merely suggesting an alternative to the universal damage bonus. I personally don't care whether the bonus remains untouched or not, but since changing the current legend reward system was being considered, I threw my suggestion into the hat.

Remember that having reduced special move prices potentially means a wrestler can have more numerous special moves. You can opt to try and retire with only 1 or even 0 specials... but not everyone wants a win/loss record like Crynus the Bloody. :p A legend can still become quite formidable, especially when equipped with a good number of enhanced finishing moves.

Money will be a legend's best friend.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-12 01:53:30
Legends aren't the sole reason why so many wrestlers never make it to SSWO. VOW requires you to play for months before you have enough experience for the upper leagues, the same as real-life pro wrestling. Sure, a lot of people sign up for wrestling lessons, but how many actually make it far enough to do the small shows? How many manage to work their way up to join the indie feds, and maybe even get a chance to do the big leagues?

Some players don't have the patience for it. Some players regularly replace their characters no matter what the situation is.

The tournaments that have problems finding enough people tend to be the style specific ones. Players are discouraged from using certain styles, and eventually it gets harder to get enough people for those style specific tourneys. One time trads were the style you picked if you wanted to be successful. Now trads are seen in a bad light, so naturally the trad population in VOW is smaller than it used to be.

About Stupendous''s an idea. How about for a reward, a legend can carry over any move he has to his next style? The legend would have an extra move to his starting moveset.
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-01-12 02:31:50
my favorite is still a complete VOW overhaul, much like the one we did to bring it from version 1 to version 2 (the current).
Some modifications made since then could be improved or mothballed to make way for different concepts.

However, this would probably require more work than Peter is prepared/able to give and would also require everyone to start again from scratch (more or less), so I have pretty much given up all hopes of it ever happening.

As small changes go, the ones decided by Peter make sense and should be implemented. As for the proposed changes - reducing the legend bonus is ok - the +3 for the first retirement seem a little high now. +1 per retirement should suffice. I personally do not like the idea of changing tournament participents to only 4 min. What kind of a sad tourney has only 4 people in it??? My favorite tourneys are those with 50 people or so slugging it out. 4 people is just sad... Adding new tourneys wont do any good nor any harm, so go ahead. The more move-texts the better.
Post by: Atomik(69833)
2006-01-12 07:15:56
Hi All!

I have some ideas (perhaps someone has already talked about them ... i haven't read all posts because i am lazy ;-))

1) Legends should have a minimal fame, a legend is ... a legend and a legend with a low fame is strange! Having a high fame can balance a lower damage bonus.

2) "An easy triumph brings no glory!"
So why a victory over a lower player brings as much fame as a victory over a stronger player???
A victory against a stronger player = more fame
A victory against a low player = less fame
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-12 07:21:36
I first suggested the tournament format be changed to 4 participants for the SSWO league and the new league to be formed in the future only. LAW, SPWA, and PWO tournys are active enough not to change the number of entrants. Also, it could be changed to 4 on a temporary basis. If in fact, Peter sees a growth in the participation of the higher league tournys after the changes are implimented, then that number could be modified on the go in the future. The tournament rewards may need to be modified as well with the number change.

Allowing someone that retired to carry over a spec or "special" pricing sounds like a good idea, IF you lower the damage bonus to equalize the change.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-12 07:24:48
1) Legends should have a minimal fame, a legend is ... a legend and a legend with a low fame is strange! Having a high fame can balance a lower damage bonus.

As I have said before, an inactive legend is no different than an inactive noob...BUT...I agree with your statement MIGHTY Atomik :P
Post by: Coneman(325)
2006-01-12 14:35:49
Quote from someone:

VOW CHAT : The atmosphere in chat has deteriorated since the mods were reset to just hick bob. I think that Peter should take a few days and seriously consider reinstituting a group of mods back into VOW.

Ooooh pick me, I've done it before :)

Dunno if it's been mentioned in here but it's got it's own thread so what about if we give each league a minimum fame law can be 0 since it's amateurs, spwa can be 100, pwo can be 200, and sswo can be 300...that's just an example of what I'm talking about.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-13 01:54:58
RPW - Ready for Primetime Wrestling

We can keep the SSWO name for the most experienced players. The ones with 2K to 4K XP can have an original name, like RPW.

Or, if the new league will have the new name...

ECW - Elite Championship Wrestling
MWF - Marquee Wrestling Federation
EWA - Elite Wrestling Alliance
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-13 06:50:02
New league name :

PETER - Peters Elites who Terrorize Everyone in the Ring.

(just kidding :P)
Post by: Coneman(325)
2006-01-13 14:52:53
VWL...Veterans Wrestling League or Organistion if you wanna make it VWO (doubt I spelt that right)
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-13 19:15:04
all the changes are great.. horay BA will retire:P
also peter what do u think of this name

Acomplished Stardem Wrestling Organisation = ASWO

(may not have spelt stardem right sorry bout that)
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-01-13 20:30:14
you probably meant stardom
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-13 22:43:52
Ultimate Championship of Wrestling Organization (UCWO)
Elite Champions Wrestling Organization (ECWO)
Grand Masters Wrestling Organization (GMWO)
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-14 16:16:34
Mega Giants of Wrestling Organization (MGWO)
Behemoths R US (BUS) lol
Top Class Wrestling Organization (TCWO)
UberAwesome SuperStars Wrestling Organization (USWO)
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-14 16:20:06
(OOC: i'm you cant see me2. in case any of u didn't know)
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-14 16:28:08
Ring Masters Wrestling Orgaisation (RMWO)

Highly Skilled Wrestling Organisation (HSWO)

Top of the Chain Wrestling Organisation (TCWO)

Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-14 16:30:37
coneman i have played for one year and haven't retired.... alot of hard work... gettign closer now only 44 moves:)
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-14 16:35:04
"Grrr stop d*** staffing me"

I agree..its getting old to see this is chat. I say do away with coach and trainer and just use doctors as staff.
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2006-01-15 00:11:29
"all the changes are great.. horay BA will retire:P"

Don't count on it.
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-15 08:58:35
so BA u will just keep playing until your wreslter becomes as weak as a law?
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-01-15 16:17:09
Some very interesting points are here.

Will come up with a revised set of changes later.

Due to the large amount of input the changes will not be done in the first half of january. It is almost over :)

Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-01-15 18:46:28
Hi Guys and Girls,

Below is what I have now modified the changes to based on your input.

I think this is final but am still very interested in hearing your comments - both if you agree and disagree.


Problems we are trying to solve:
- Someone holds 3+ belts in a league for a extended period of time
- God like characters in a league.
- Make the difference smaller between new and higher SSWO players.

- New league Veteran Wrestling Organisation, 4k exp and above. No style specific tournaments in this league.
- You can choose any style when you retire. Meaning that you can retire and return as the same style as you are.
- Legends damage bonus removed from all tournaments except in Veteran Wrestling Organisation.
- Add table and LMS tournaments to all leagues except LAW.
- Reduce legends damage bonus for first retirement to +1. Most legends are doing too good, a lot of this is due to the game knowledge of the player of course.

- New players in a league will still have a very hard time in tournaments. However it have always been this way and I think that is fair enough.
- Will this mean that the top players will not dominate the top league. I think so since the top league tounament belts is already split out between different players.

- Wrestlers getting old and a stat cap. It should not be nessesary with the way the stat increase is made and the listed changes.
Post by: smoke(126548)
2006-01-15 18:52:28
Sounds good.
Post by: Mr x(159696)
2006-01-15 18:55:09
there should be lms and table torneys in law. it is unfair to laws that we arn't aloud to do this
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-01-15 18:56:32
LAW is for learning the game. Many players already finish law before the tourney finish.
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-15 18:56:41
sounds good peter... but i think u should still have style specific titles in the new league because it is so hard to win world sswo title or Rage in a Cage beucase legends and people like BA and bubba dominate them.... at least with style specific tourney's people who aren't usually the best can win...
But appart form that all the changes are great:)
(i'm you cant see me2.)
Post by: Mr x(159696)
2006-01-15 18:57:13
there should be lms and table torneys in law. it is unfair to laws that we arn't aloud to do this
Post by: Belial(107975)
2006-01-15 18:57:22
Everything sounds fair to me, but then again, I've not graduated from PWO yet so I dunno about how the Legends will see it.
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-15 18:58:27
Mr X didn't peter already explain the reason to u?
Post by: Mr x(159696)
2006-01-15 19:00:06
sorry double post.
but any way it still would be nice to have then in a tourney because then good laws will get more money and better stats
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-15 19:00:50
1. Will it now be a +1 bonus with every retirement?
2. Will you get the bonus if you repeat a style?

1. Holding multiple belts shouldn't be an issue. In my opinion, it is jealousy of people that can't win them (usually due to a lack of knowledge)
2. Thank you for removing the idea of stat decreases!
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-01-15 19:02:22
There will be style specific tournaments in SSWO but not VWO

Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-15 19:03:26
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-01-15 19:05:16
Retirement bonus will be +1 for each retirement initially.

Later I might modify it if needed.

I think wrestlers retirering as different styles should be rewarded.

Maybe it could be +1 for first retirement for each style and +0.5 for any extra retirement as the same style.

I will have to think about this. Please comment.
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-15 19:05:18
do u know what day these changes will be made to vow or are u waiting on the comments from people when they reply to this thread?
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-15 19:06:22
i think the first time u reitre it should be +2 regardless of what style u choose and every other time +1
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-01-15 19:08:36
I am waiting for comments before making final desition.

It seems in this case that we have a good discussion and I do not want to end it prematurely by making a rash desition.

Of course I do not want to postphone it too long either. Maybe give it a few days so everyone have had a change to read and comment.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-15 19:10:49
I think maybe a set damage bonus for the first set of retirements, then an increasing percentage bonus for every other one after that.

Say BA retires (HA!) - he gets his +1 bonus for the first technical retirement. BA then decides to go tech again and retires again (double HA!), he gets a 5% damage bonus on top of the +1. If he retires tech for a 3rd time the %age bonus goes up to say 10% (still less than a PG).

In other words:
1 retirement = +1 damage
2 retirements = +1 damage + 5% increase
3 retirements = +1 damage + 10% increase
4 retirements = +1 damage + 15% increase (basically a PG bonus +1)
5 retirements = +2 damage + no %age increase

Repeat as necessary.
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-15 19:15:07
what do u mean by the % thing?
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-01-15 19:45:51
I think the changes Peter proposed sound good.

I dont see the point of changing the legendbonus to percentages
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-15 20:18:34
My 2 AP:

You can choose any style when you retire.
Table and LMS tourneys except in LAW: I'm willing to go with this. LAWs have an incentive to get promoted if they want to go after a table or LMS title.

Legends damage bonus for first retirement changed to +1: if this is going to be implemented, there's no need to take away the damage bonus for tourneys.
No legends damage bonus in tournaments except for VWO: I think a compromise would be better. Give legends a fixed +1 damage bonus for tourneys, no matter how many times they've retired.
Post by: gruchul(66928)
2006-01-15 20:34:03
I'm with m_carta on this one. The greatly reduced legend bonus makes removing it from tournaments seem a little unnecessary, and that compromise will keep Bubba on a level pegging with us!
Post by: yadlow2005(86957)
2006-01-15 23:52:34

I guess the aging factor was too much a challenge for many players. Yet, I conceed on this end. This is a game and too much realism would probably make it unpleasant to continued play.

All other changes are agreeable for me.

VWO a good name choice and yes legend bonus removed from other leagues is completely fair and reducing it overall.

Now, the one thing that NEEDS to be done..detachment. I would imagine it is something to be used in VOW 3

Now, I guess we need to use peer pressure to get people to actually read the forum



Post by: BubbaG(33460)
2006-01-16 01:36:21
I'm wondering how the decided changes will help with the current situation of having somone like BA with a huge exp lead on any other wrestler. The only reason I have not retired again is because I couldn't. But if I do now, the next closest wrestler exp wise is Jaysen Chambers who isn't around much at all with 4k less than you drop to RVD420 with 5k less. So if and when I retire again, whats to stop BA from dominating the VWO? Unless someone decides to donate to get a ton of aps to catch up, I see no change in the structure of the top wrestlers. Which to me seems quite boring. Just my 2 cents.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-16 02:04:26
gruchul: I'm with m_carta on this one. The greatly reduced legend bonus makes removing it from tournaments seem a little unnecessary, and that compromise will keep Bubba on a level pegging with us!

At least until you get to VWO.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-16 02:55:28
Bubba: Buy me a few thousand ap (100k would be nice) and I could get someone to rival him :P
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2006-01-16 04:00:16
I'm glad there's not going to be any stat cap for the time being (and if I had it my way, never). I still wasn't going to retire whatever the case was going to be anyway. Sorry guys, I guess I'm stubborn like that. ;)

VWO league. Great with it since I think it was my original suggestion, so I can't complain there. :)

I'm indifferent towards the legend bonus. There's times when it can seem slightly overpowerd, so it's nice to see that it's getting toned down, especially where tournaments are concerned.

As far as wrestlers holding 3+ belts? I don't see why this should be changed. As LK already pointed out, it comes down to the majority moaning about it since they can't do it. I know I worked to earn three titles at one time (nearly the four if it wasn't for that meddling Bubba!) so that player should have the right to defend those, and keep those to the best of their ability. If they hold onto them for a week, or even a month and a half, then tough luck to the players trying to win them. It's a game at the end of the day, and you'll all feel that much better by overcoming a real challenge and finally dethroning the dominate champion. ;)

I like the idea of having that choice to come back as the same style at retirement, but again, I still can't see myself doing that.

Adding LMS and tables tourneys will reduce the belt count to even higher levels, and it is getting to be a little rediculous on that front IMO. I'd rather see a tag tournament getting added than those, but I know that won't be happening anytime soon. Have to wait for VOW3 for that one I guess.

That's my thoughts on most things there. Bubba? Someone shouldn't get forced into retirement if they don't want it. Will I dominate the VWO when you retire again? Who knows, maybe I will. In most cases, the experience difference doesn't make that much of an impact in singles matches compared to a muilti legend bonus (which we all know will be enabled in the VWO tourneys). I still think it'll be quite fair in that respects. It's down to Peter if he wants to up that bonus even higher in the VWO tourneys or not.
Post by: yadlow2005(86957)
2006-01-16 08:51:18

Yes, the aging factor or stat cap may have slowed MR. Allan down, if implemented but there are other ways to do this. Well, I had to rethink this whole concept as I was one of the few who liked this proposed move to give all players a chance of equalization. It would be simple and would make even BA happy. An experience cap of 15000 would be the best proposed change. Somehow people fell in love with the idea of not having to work again. So, they resist going through things like retirement or even detachment. No stat minus, no skill deterioration and the ability to make as many 154 specials if desired. Yet, the experience freeze would give younger and less successful wrestlers a goal to shoot for. Also, it would set a mark at which someone could decide to retire.
I know the idea of an open game seems best, but, it also seems unfair. Well, reality check folks not everything is equal. Imagine 10 or 15 people at that same level. Therefore, the playing field reaches an equal level of chance for true success as wrestler. Therefore, translating into continued fun in the game.

Now, I have got to say this and say I concur with the idea of tag team tournaments, but, just do a search in the tag teams and one can see that a few things would have to done to clean up the tag team division. As a former programmer, I see a lot of work and detail would be required to make that happen. So, I am going to drop this on you and you can go on with your lives. This system needs more donations. If you wish more actual changes to the game and you need to realize it will need more money for servers and storage and administration.

I enjoy this game. It is a nice challenge at times and a great frustration at other moments, but, it seems to balance out. So, as an older person who enjoys his free time on the computer, Let's enjoy the game.

Post by: yadlow2005(86957)
2006-01-16 09:26:15
Oh yes forgot to ask.

New League means all belts from VWO to SSWO will be vacated?
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-01-16 09:40:51
Experience aint important in those regions. BA has all the moves, his stats only grow by 1 every 1000exp or so.

The only problem is him getting 100+ finishers, but that too I see as unrealistic. I admit I dont know the formula, but I expect that after 25 finishers or so the price wont drop below 150k.

So let the man have his rest - he will never become invincible. And I doubt, honestly, that he will have the ap to sign up for 5 tourneys (only one of them singles), so I guess there will still be titles up for graps for those who want.

Anyone who wants to change the situation - build a stronger wrestler and kick his ass, easy as that. Donators have 3 chars - one can hunt down BA, the others can achieve Legendfame.
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2006-01-16 10:54:12
I love you too, Skorp. :P
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2006-01-16 10:55:40
As for the question, yeah. People that hold SSWO titles and get the promotion to VWO will vacate the titles like all the other leagues.

Edit: Oh, and for the record. Right now my 23rd special will cost me $93929. Each time I'm buying a special now, I haven't seen that much of an increase. Maybe about 8-10K. By the time I get back up there to buy the next, it already drops about 2K+ or so.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2006-01-16 14:08:12
+1 dmg for legends? Sounds hardly worth retiring for... I wish I wouldn't of retired now. :(
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2006-01-16 14:12:17
I wouldn't care what happens with the dmg bonus... IF we legends got increased chances of hitting each move at it's fullest dmg potential. But as it is now... I barely get to use my dmg bonus.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-01-16 14:41:36
The changes seem fair. But everyone must remember...Peter said that he'll be keeping an eye on things and will make adjustments in the future, if need be. I'm glad to see the huge amount of participation in this Forum. I hope everyone sees that Peter does just takes people to stand up in numbers and send their thoughts and suggestions to him. He's not a mindreader, lol.

Without some sort of balance in place, I do see the new league tourneys to be controlled by those who dominate SSWO tourneys now. Those who chose not to retire will be near unstoppable giants in the new league. BA : I hope you know man, that nothing Ive said about the "age cap' issue was ever meant to be a personal stab at you. Its just that, your char has become larger than VOW itself, lol. With every VWO member that retires, you become even more invincible. Of course, that decision is yours to ponder.

Finally, only a few mentioned it here besides myself, but I think a Tagteam tourney offers more to the game than the two new tournaments suggested. of course, that can be added later on...after we see results for the new changes.
Post by: BALLA2K4(31390)
2006-01-16 16:01:43
OK...changes sound good...and one of my ideas was actually implimented in the new changes (wow never thought that would happen) but I have a major issue with one of the changes...VWO (which I will be part of unfortunately) will NOT have style specific tournies. This is crap. With BA and Bubba running around, the only tourney I have a chance to win is the SN tourney (which title I have held for the longest because the tournies never run)...If you are going to make a league that doesnt have style specific tournies, it should be SSWO that doesnt have those....those of us that hold style specific belts shouldnt lose our belts because of this change...the SSWO style specific tournies should change to VWO style specific tournies, with the same champions. SSWO belts will be much easier to get than VWO belts as it is, because there will only be 2K experience capping the highest SSWO with the lowest SSWO...VWO is endless...the people I will be competing with have double my experience...why should a league that has ok 2K experience before promotion get 10 belts????? that doesnt seem right...just my two cents...

all the other changes are fine with me, but I think that the veterans of this game who are in the VWO shouldnt lose out on something they have accomplished just because a few people have decided the gap between the high and the low SSWOs is too high...honestly, I dont see a reason to have a new league, as it is hard enuff for players on this level to get matches as it is, and with this new league implimented, it will be even harder...but its wuteva...
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-16 16:46:12
all the changes are great.. espcially the new leauge.. and i have to agree with balla... u need style specific toruney's or people like me and balla and alot of others will never hold belts becuase of BA and bubba....

i dont beleive there should be a stat or exp bar that stops u... but once BA gets alot of specials (well he already has 20 or so lol) and his stats are amazingly high i beleive he will find alot of people are unwilling to fight him..a nd his fame will drop and he will begin to get exp slowly... in my opinion i find that boring.... so i do beleive evantually u will get bored of having hardly anyone to vs and retire BA...


oh almost forgot will there be LMS and table tourney's in VWO?
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-01-16 21:47:03
I can tell you why I think it wont have style-specific tourneys:
The new league will have between 30 and 40 members. Some style-tournies will never run - which is rather unfair.

Anyways. You people whine too much. Honestly. Reading this thread, you get the impression that what you want is for Peter to implement a tourney for each of you, where you fight against LAW-bots and win the damn thing every time.

It's rediculous really.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2006-01-16 22:02:37
YCSM2: VWO will have all the tourneys except style-specific (trad, PG, aerial, SN, tech).

And I'm with Kueller on why there will be no style-specific tourneys in VWO.

Though I also thought that part of the reason is because Peter prefers it that way: leagues 1 (LAW), 3 (PWO) and 5 (VWO) having no style tourneys, while leagues 2 (SPWA) and 4 (SSWO) having the style tourneys :P
Post by: yadlow2005(86957)
2006-01-17 01:16:59
Agreed on the whining of belts, tournaments and the like. Once again, someone hit it on the head. BA and Bubba are tough but not invincible. Build your character best you can and play the game. Stop looking for cheese to go with that whine. :0
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-01-17 05:29:54
Idea for a tourney to add along with the VWO league:
A whole new tourney which everyone can enter if they want, regardless of league.
100$ sign up cost, 1000$ prize money

Now the special thing about this tourney:
The match type is entirely based on chance.
chance of single = 50%, ladder = table = cage = lms = 12,5%

To crown the Undisputed VOW Champion

(would have to be VWO tourney so that everyone can sign up)
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-01-17 05:30:37
^should be easy to implement so if everyone likes it, Peter might just do it :)
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2006-01-17 05:56:50
Sounds good to me. Maybe a bit of a tweek on percentages as far as a few other match types go. Not sure about 50% for singles. Maybe 40%?
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-01-17 06:29:00
40% sounds good too
Post by: Captain Stupendous(38517)
2006-01-17 10:03:05
I LIKE Kueller's idea of a random World Title match. I believe that this should apply to World Title matches at all leagues.


Is the prospect of changing names post-retirement still being considered? It would be nice to have the option to "change gimmicks" when "coming out of retirement".
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-18 08:08:46
oh yeah that would be great... i could get rid of this stupid name:P
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-18 08:10:39
oh yeah and peter can u give me some esitmated day?

becuase i'm thinking about joining the sswo rage in a cage tourney... and i dont wanna join then lose my cash cause i get promoted....
Post by: The Sniper(27754)
2006-01-23 20:28:56
Awesome! Nice job Peter, really like the changes. I like the increased cap thing with more retirements alot. Everything looks good, wonder what this Stat cap is... Hmmmm...

Oh and out of point, I already rival BA at 6500 Exp. You just need to be brave is all ;)
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-01-24 19:00:28
No style specific tourneys in new league since people potentially can hold these forever if they are never run.

New tourney with random style sounds interesting :)

For the record, the aging idea is not dropped as such, it is just put on hold to see the effect of these changes take place.

I think my latest set of modification will work and will start implementing it. It should be there sometime this weekend, I might put some of it on the test server for a few days first.
The latest would be next weekend if I run into some implementation issues :)

Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-01-25 01:19:32
Hi all. Denzil again. My thoughts on all stuff. I just read through all the threads. Listing all the good stuff I like. league. 4k

3.legends been able to take the same style after they retire.
4set fame as well for each league. If you hit it it should not go below it. Like been a leagend be a base of 500 fame min. at all times. That is what a leagend is all about.
Well eg. Law.=0 spwa=100. pwo.=200 sswo=300. new league=400. add +100 to this if ya legend. The stat fame is what I mean here .
5. get a +2 bonus for retiring and + 1 for every time they retire. Remember the person still has done all the hard work just like all the other retireys.. so if the person gose on to retire all 5 classes give him a bonus of some thing else. Like a free move to come across every style he takes. So if he has retired 3 times let him take 3 free moves across to his new style.
6. tournys damage bounus for legend all the way to the top league will be +1. it might add some more ppl into tourneys. Give bac the full bounus for open league.
7. extra matchs like hard core.
8.drop all the style matchs like teck and so on to have one variable match. Totally random in match style and have it as your world match. This is because ppl that be come world champ did not fight one style to get there. This might take some of the load off your CPU and all the stuff at your end Peter.
9.kill staff. Just leave docs. It will save in chat.
10. a link to the player manuwell for newbs on the front page.
11. more mods.

Hope it helps.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-01-25 01:25:18
1 more point. tournys. holding a belt. if you hold it you should not be alowd to re enter. no one in wwe does. cenna does not get a buy for been in a tourny. so if he holds it let him defend it. if he holds all of them be happy. your a god. and let the plebs fight for the right to try to beat the titan that holds it.
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-25 09:07:33
that fame thingy is good idea
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-01-26 02:30:35
I am glad to here the aging idea hasnt been dropped permanently.

Depending on how it is implemented, it would be the coolest of the proposed changes (in my opinion).

Even if BA doesnt like it :)
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2006-01-26 02:47:22
Awww. :'(
Post by: Tarin(118208)
2006-01-27 04:37:57
The only time the damage bonus is good is in tourney's. The rest of the time it reduces the amount of challenges you get relative to your fame level because it increases the likelihood of injuring your opponent. They'll still get plenty of challenges due to laziness, etc. But the point of the game shouldn't be hoping that people are willing to job to you.

How about a legend bonus system that works like this, in the match both you and your opponent get the advantage, and it works out better for both as you both walk out with less injuries. Each retirement you can chose another bonus. Here's some examples:

Both combantants have an increased chance to pin.
Increased chance to submit.
Both players have a reduced chance of countering moves.
Both players go for a pinfall after everymove and sometimes two times in a row and then argue with the referee afterwards.
Post by: Crosson(37742)
2006-01-27 10:35:59
Ok I will preface this by admitting I only read about half this thread. So, if the thread took a different turn (and it probably did), then I apologize for going back and rehashing old stuff.

First off, I think removing the legends bonus in tourneys is good. I have been against the legends bonus since its inception, as I honestly think 2x ap + 3 wrestlers is more than enough incentive to donate (and yes I realize not all legends are donators).

Aging I'm pretty indifferent on. I can see why it would want to be implemented, but decreasing the stats is bad. A cap on stats is much better. At some point, you are going to get bored of never improving and will choose to retire (unless you're BA of course).

I have thoughts on the other ideas, but most have already been spoken or I can't figure out how to say exactly what I want to about them.

Just a couple thoughts from a long time NON-donator.

Post by: word life 101(66857)
2006-01-27 11:12:00
its been 2 weeks or more.... are the changes gonna be made now?
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-01-29 16:30:45
The changes is now implemented.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2006-01-29 18:22:55
So is the damage bonus lowered to 1 for first time retirees now? :( Can't you just give legends increased chance of connecting moves at full dmg? Then as far as I care... you can kill the dmg bonus, but I'm not sure all the other legends would feel the same. I mean there must be a more fair compromise here somewhere. But I will try whatever you choose... I just hope it doesn't take from the point of becoming a legend. I will stop complaining and be open that whatever you do might work.
Post by: Marcs or Felix(120913)
2006-01-30 00:43:10
I think the changes are brilliant, especially the additions of the tourny types and no legend bomnus in tournys

i just wanna kno can we look forward to new matches or new moves?

Good work peter
Post by: Loincloth Legend(122263)
2006-01-30 00:47:19
Love the changes, but was wondering what happens to the bonuses for wining the last tourney? Won the last sswo power and havent got any cash or fame *grrr*
Post by: gruchul(66928)
2006-01-30 01:24:31
You get the cash, fame and title shot the day after wiining the tourney LL.

I hope these changes work, I don't want VWO to find it harder to get matches or anything!
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-01-30 01:48:46
Changes suck!

Legends now have nothing to show for retiring, except their name on some list which is becoming more worthless each week.

Belts mean nothing now, as there are too many.

New league is pointless - why didn't you just add tourneys instead of a league?
Post by: Limerick(56750)
2006-01-30 02:27:50
my god, stop complaining!! All you do is bitch!
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-01-30 02:34:36
All those titles do make them seem pointless. There's so many it's just a big blur on the screen. Could we have for each league just a world championship. Keep the fighting styles, cage, ladder, LMS and tables for all leagues.
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-01-30 02:39:02
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2006-01-30 11:50:53
Limerick, I don't know if you're talking to me... But all I've seen you do is suck up. One extreme to the other, eh pal? It took me a year for my first and only retirement, I did also put money into this game for just about the entire year I've been here. Does that make me have more say? No, and it shouldn't... But at the sametime, I don't think that I should be talked to like that. I kinda have a right to complain if I want to, but I did say that I'm willing to try this... So far it has been a joke the first day, especially since I chose the traditional style when I retired. Before you get mad at me for saying this, think about what you said first. It wasn't right. I do respect Peter and everything he's done here, but I am not a suck up and never will be. If I don't like something you'll know about it. I do like all the tournaments, and I agree that perhaps legends shouldn't have the bonus in tournaments... But in a regular match it is the non-legend's choice to fight the legend.

*Waiting for someone to jump on me for defending myself.*
Post by: Mad Bear(46310)
2006-01-31 01:27:25
Should of let the current Legends keep their damage bonuses.
I would not retire for a +1 damage bonus for the first retirement.
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2006-01-31 08:17:12
peter. do you realize that by changing the legends bonus you have guaranteed there will be more characters like brian allen. people now have no reason to retire their characters. there is no reward. so I guess you will just have to get used to haveing god characters because there will be more and more all the time. with no reason to retire. and I feel ripped off of my donations. I spent that money to retire for the bonuses. and then you take them away. thanks alot
Post by: Limerick(56750)
2006-01-31 19:32:26
Emmm...I wasn't talking about you Bret. I was talking about the Legend Killer, because I have never seen a post from him that was anyway positive. If you notice from a lot of my earlier posts, I said the same thing as you about retirement bonuses etc. Why the hell would I have been responding to you anyway? Your post was well up...don't flatter yourself, you're not that important.

And on a related note, how exactly do I do nothing but suck up? Please explain it to me. Is it to other players, or just Peter? Either way, thats bullcrap, but whatever...
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-02-01 01:51:47
Limerick: At least my comments are relavent to the thread, and are of some use to the game. When you have spent close to 2 years playing this game, and have just had everything turned to nothing with the press of the button you'd know how I'd feel about VOW.

And I do make positive posts, but I guess that I'm always wrong.
Post by: Limerick(56750)
2006-02-01 01:59:04
I've been playing this game about a year and a half as well...and yes, it will be frustrating when I retire but so what? I'm still going to pwn the n00bs in LAW when I start over. Th changes have been made, and from what I've seen, Peter isn't going to change them back. Saying stuff like "the new changes suck!" isn't going to change anything.
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-02-01 02:56:02
you won't pwn anything when you retire with the new changes. You'll only be a very tiny significant bit better. And in torunies you're evenly matched with people if not worse for wear. You spent a year and a half right? Enjoy your waste of time for a mere +1 and not much improvement. What we're saying is peter focuses on new players too much and ignores us completely. The game just got easier (again). How far is too far? I mean we're at the point a 5 year old can beat the crap out of you. How much lower should we go with this game?
Post by: Mad Bear(46310)
2006-02-01 03:25:24
The problem is two fold:
1. Who would want to retire for +1 damage bonus. When you can keep going with your wrestler and become better by buying more specials and receiving better stats.
2. If there ever was aging/loss of stats, who would want to retire with a +1 damage bonus with no use in Tourneys. You either quit or are forced into retiring with no real benefits.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2006-02-01 14:38:06
I agree, you will not dominate anything Limerick as a legend. I am losing to people way lower than me with ease, but I am a trad now. You sure think you're important, don't you? And I was referring to you sucking up to Peter. I like Peter, but I ain't going to suck up to the man. If I don't like something, then I'm gonna say something. And I'm sorry for responding when I thought you were talking to me... But you sure didn't address the person you were talking to either. I'm with the others, it'll be better to specialize more moves instead of retiring. If the aging thing is brought in, I guess I'll keep going until my character dies and then retire for real by quitting the game. I really don't want to though, as I've enjoyed playing, but I don't see any point to keep starting over for nothing.
Post by: gruchul(66928)
2006-02-01 17:10:13
Here are the problems:
- Someone holds 3+ belts in a league for a extended period of time
- God like characters in a league.

By taking away most of the legend bonus, you've made retirement seem pretty worthless. Over a year for a +1 bonus? No thanks. Of course I'm not the only one who feels this way and many will go the way of BA (20+ specials and really high stats do make a difference!). By 'solving' problem A, problem B just got much worse. Others in the thread have already suggested limitations on tournaments entered. Now this would be a REAL solution. If you can't enter tournaments you hold the belt in, more title shots would be had making holding onto three belts very difficult!
If you can only enter one at a time, the difficulty of even getting those belts is drastically increased.

Summary: Bring back the legend bonus! It was the only incentive to retire and prevent godlike characters. Make modifications to tournament structure to sort out these problems, not things that weren't broken.
Post by: Limerick(56750)
2006-02-02 01:02:17
The thing is Bret...I AGREE with all of your points! Damn right I think its not good enough to have just +1 bonus for legends, I've been playing this game a long time now, looking forward to retirement, and now there's not much point. But making a statement like "the changes suck!" isn't constructive. The points gruchul, mad bear, and even yourself made are much more likely to get stuff changed than one broad sweeping statement like that.

When I said "you're not that important", you're not that important to me to be worth commenting on.

Finally, as for sucking up to Peter, I really don't think that fits, as I've already been warned before for calling him a **female dog** in chat. Just I see more point in being constructive in my comments.
Post by: Tarin(118208)
2006-02-02 06:28:57
The legend bonus should be changed from a damage bonus. One that can be used in tournaments and still make the game balanced or one that has no effect on tournaments. For example, a fame bonus or a cash bonus etc.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2006-02-02 10:39:19
You do have a good point there Limerick, and as for the changes again... I haven't been able to collect past $700 in the past few days since they were made. :( I am getting injured like crazy and I can't hardly win any matches. Here is my proposal if we can't have the dmg bonus back:

1. Legends get increased chance of connecting at full dmg on each move.

2. Legend matches pay both participants more money win or lose.

3. Give legends 1 extra free finisher. ;)
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-02-06 16:13:06
"Summary: Bring back the legend bonus! It was the only incentive to retire and prevent godlike characters. Make modifications to tournament structure to sort out these problems, not things that weren't broken."

I will agree. Unfortunately, there are people who have expressed that no matter what changes occur, even if they are beneficial, they simply will not retire. As this is public fact, I say implimenting a restriction on how many tourneys one can participate in at any given time, or how many belts a person can hold at any given time is our only option(s).

Injuries incurred in a match is NOT the bi-product of "having" a low damage bonus. Just because you retired, doesnt mean that you can stop with the basic fundamentals. Build your char right and pick the opponent that best fits the match type. Example : PG vs. Trad in an LMS...who is going to be the damage dealer here (most of the time)? If you are the PG and getting owned by a Trad in LMS everytime, then you need to get advice on how to build your char.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2006-02-06 16:31:03
I don't think that Peter is going to read this thread again unfortunately. :(
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-02-12 11:29:56
You don't :)
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-02-12 21:08:41
To even things out a little:

- increase the finisher prices dramatically. Goal should be:
5th finisher : 25000 $
10th finisher: 100000 $
15th finisher: 200000 $
20th finisher: 400000 $

(Min Prices)

- as part of the implementation, everyone loses 1/2 of their finishers (this requires a little programing effort, but I'm sure you're up to it)
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-02-13 01:32:42
if you have an even number of finishers right now dont buy anymore for a while... just incase
Post by: lazy(27024)
2006-02-13 01:35:35
...Unfair change, I don't want half a special :)...

It seriously is incredibly unfair to BA.....
Post by: lazy(27024)
2006-02-13 01:36:15
If this change occurs, I'm going to want my VOW money back.
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-02-13 06:40:29
how is this change different to the changes made to the legend bonus?
Post by: lazy(27024)
2006-02-13 06:53:25
I don't want to waste money on a special which I wouldn't get back.
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-02-13 07:35:15
I am sure that wouldnt be a problem. Instead of cutting the number of finishers in half, all could be removed and a compensation paid based on the number of finishers you had, ie you wouldnt lose any money - the price for finishers would just go up and people with tons of finishers couldnt afford to buy as many as they had before the change
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-02-13 08:06:12
we have a winner
Post by: lazy(27024)
2006-02-13 08:11:39
Yeah, and since the fact that you wouldn't be able to decide what finishers you couldn't get rid of, that'd suck.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-02-13 17:20:50
You just get the original special back?
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-02-13 18:04:09
lazy, I think you misunderstood...
Post by: lazy(27024)
2006-02-14 06:21:05
I know not the bases. but you stated that everyone on VOW will have to buy new finishers due to finisher losses, how'd you choose which you get rid of...
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-02-14 07:31:34
the same way you chose your finishers until now. You'd basically buy them again - probably in the same order as before (or not, thats up to you)... Choosing which one(s) not to buy would be the same decision you are faced with when buying a new finisher
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2006-02-14 08:30:31
I don't really care for this finisher idea. Everyone has the option to get as many finishers as they want, thus the playing field is evened! If someone puts enough work into it, then they should reap the benefits. That is my opinion.
Post by: Coneman(325)
2006-02-17 14:38:21
Problems we are trying to solve:
- Someone holds 3+ belts in a league for a extended period of time

- God like characters in a league.

World VWO Championship Brian Allan 8 3
VWO Ladder Championship Brian Allan 0 5
VWO Rage in a Cage Brian Allan 0 3
VWO Table Championship Brian Allan 1 3
VWO LMS Championship Brian Allan 0 4

Nice job...
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