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Forum: VOW Newbies
Thread: Question about Specialized pins
Post by: lazy(27024)
2005-01-13 09:21:47
With specialized pins, since they do more damage doesn't the pin chance go up?
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2005-01-13 10:05:58
No. Pins/sub chances don't increase if you specialize those moves.
Post by: lazy(27024)
2005-01-13 10:43:57
so don't the chances go up with more damage, after the damage is done?
Post by: Coneman(325)
2005-01-13 12:40:20
No..not as far as I know.
Post by: FloriZeus(7923)
2005-01-13 17:43:09
Yes...with more damage received the opponent is more likely to get pinned or subbed.

eg: doing a Rolling Germans for 3 damage and then a pin attempt has, I think, a lower chance of success than a specialized one doing 21 damage and then a pin attempt.

What the chance difference is, I don't know.

Could be 20 %(very unlikely), could be 0.05 % also...
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-01-14 00:54:02
There is no improvement to pin/sub %age. It's a common misconception (dunno if that was spelt right).
Post by: mistahspeddles(20309)
2005-01-14 07:01:48
I ended up getting less pins with RG's specialized now than before it was.
Post by: lazy(27024)
2005-01-14 08:06:48
oh thanks
Post by: Jaysen Chambers(46756)
2005-01-17 14:45:25
This is what everyone seemingly falters on..

YES their is a raised increase chance of a submission or pinfall with a specialized pin and/or submission.

Why? Because you just did about 20 damage to your opponent, considering that the opponent has been worn down so much from the specialized move, it makes them more prone to tap out or stay down.

E.g. You hit a brain buster for 13 damage, you apply the figure four for 4 damage, they are more likely to tap out because they've taken more damage which makes the sub rate go higher, rather then if you put them into the figure four straightaway.

Man i'm great.. -watches his ego crush half of the VOW locker room-
Post by: Crosson(37742)
2005-01-19 16:09:56
to a certain degree Jaysen.

If you hit a specialized pin/sub move near the beginning of a match (first five moves or so), it would still have less of a chance of working than a non-specialized done 20 moves or so into the match...
Post by: slangi(11441)
2005-01-19 19:36:26
And Jaysens ego proved the misconcept. You just executed the move the attempts of someone staying down is based on damage after its accumulated. Because the specialized move was executed before the damage was done it factors in the pin success at that damage. Which would make the most sense but if you really want to know for sure pester peter.

Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-01-22 17:28:44
Explain this:

SDL/Figure Four have sub %age of 40% non-specialised (I think). Say that Jaysen is correct, then the sub %age would increase to over 50%. Thus meaning that there is a high chance of someone tapping out. WOW had the SDL specialised, and I managed to get out of the 22 (or something) damage one. But... then I tapped out to a 1 damage one after a pathetic 1 damage move before hand.

Same goes with pin moves. Best example here is GG and his NLS/Pin special. Logic says that if he hits it for major damage, then he should win. But there have been times when I have seen 20+ damage ones (multiple times) and not get the pinfall.

Why?! Because the %age isn't changed. If you want to try and prove this theory wrong, make a pair of wrestlers (same type) and specialise all pins and subs with one and none with the other and tell me which gets the more subs and pins (my money would be on the one with non-specialised pins/subs).

If you read the old forum, the VOW Spoiler said that specialising a move only increases the damage maximum (by 15) and doesn't change any of the tap out/pin success %ages.

Post by: Kueller(13231)
2005-01-22 19:37:19
It is actually quite simple:

Sub percentages dont have anything to do with damage. The chance of tappin to a FF is allways 40%. The damage the move does or the amount of con left have no influence whatsoever.

Pin percentages are different. Every pin move has a max and a min chance of succeeding. When a wrestler is fully healed, chance to pin is at a minimum. When a wrestler is allmost KOed it is at a maximum. When he has 50% con left, it is the middle of max and min...

So specializing a sub move will get you no increase in sub chance.
Specializing a pin-move will only get you an indirect increase in pin-chance (as the opponent will have less con), but specializing any of the moves executed before that pin move would have the same effect.
Post by: Jaysen Chambers(46756)
2005-01-29 16:21:21
Why was there something written about "Wear and tear" then, such as when the opponent is worn down, they are more likely to be pinned and/or submit. Sure there's ALWAYS a chance for a sub, like first move sleeper and they tap. Buuuuut as Kueller said, the pin rate goes up because they are worn down. Would that not be the same for submission considering the person would put up less of a struggle to slip out of the move? If this is not the case, i'll go on the record so to speak and say that, that is a fairly dumb move on Peter's end. Sub %'s should be like pin's... low tap rate when the match begins, but it grows while the opponent is worn down. -shrugs- Its not like Peter's ever open to true suggestions that could truly help the game anyways.
Post by: insane clown(11577)
2005-01-29 21:13:32
if peter added most to the game with what everybody says it would end up making the game stupid he knows what he is doing.
Post by: lazy(27024)
2005-01-30 06:53:12
I even put that in design/ dev., but it'd ruin it for the people with lots of subs...
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