WELCOME TO PLIT GAMES FORUM
GUEST()

Reply to Thread
Return to thread view
Return to main page

Forum: VOW Development & Design
Thread: Legend change
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2009-11-30 04:10:10
Hi,

I have today changed how VOW Legend bonus work.

OLD Bonus scheme:
* Chance of a higher damage for all moves based on how many times a character has been a legend.

NEW Bonus scheme:
* Legends get a hidden fame bonus which is shown in the top of the match result. The fame bonus currently is set to 100 * Number_Of_Times_Retired.

Reason for change:
Some many times legends was having problems finding matches since no one wanted to fight them due to the damange bonus.

Actual effect of change:
1. Both legend and non legend will get more money from fighting the match.
2. A side effect of the legend having higher fame is that the non legend can get slightly higher fame bonus in some cases.

Please post comments here after trying out the changes to how VOW legends works.

Comments from Legends as well as non legends are welcome.

Thanks
Peter
Post by: bartdogg42(413563)
2009-11-30 05:25:08
I'm excited about this if only because now I'm not scared to wrestle legends; rather, I'm eager to do so!



I'm also sort've new and must say in general I'm VERY excited to see changes being made to try and improve VOW. The forum is rather gloomy and made me think I was enjoying a sinking ship. I'm encouraged. Thanks!

ps I'm Yokozuna.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-11-30 07:06:09
Well, I'm happy to see the changes. I think people have talked about the Tournament minimum change for awhile and it's good to see that finally hit the "experiment" level.

As for Legends bonus to fame = Peter, you have now reversed the fortunes of multi Legends lol. They will be the "hotly sought after matches" now. Nice move...thumbs up !!!
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-11-30 07:23:11
I'm enjoying it so far, my only complaint is that legends like myself weren't prepared for the changes... What I mean is that I was dependent on my damage bonus so I bought moves that I might've not bought had I known of the changes. My request is to do something for legends who might be negatively effected by this by being ill prepared. Maybe let us pick a free move or give us some extra cash to "repair" our character. Just for this one time for anyone who is retired already when the changes took effect.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-11-30 07:42:39
I will agree on that notion with one "serious" stipulation.

This "Mulligan" we'll call it, should ONLY APPLY to those Legends that haven't reached PWO league yet. I ask this because by then, the Legend will have enjoyed a HIGH win percent and thus gained enough cash to build a nice move set.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-11-30 07:47:24
I'm going to have to disagree BB... I would say up to SSWO, because some people base their whole buying strategy around their bonuses.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-11-30 07:48:54
I hate it, I guess playing 5+ years for the additional bonus and all the money i spent was for nothing this is something that should be grandfather in, or added to the legend damage bonus. This wont change much as far as getting matches as the player base has gone way down from what it use to be. lack of people playing the game results in lack of matches regardless of any change. I dont see what motivation there is to even donate to this game anymore if you take away the damage bonus the only reason to retire in the 1st place. the real advantage of legends is knowledge of game mechanics that wont change. legends will still have an advantage except for the higher leagues. Of all the changes i feel this is the worst one ever. I hope you rethink it.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-11-30 07:53:18
Ray may have a point... Maybe the idea of letting those who retire all styles have a unique stat build would help make it worth it. Like we discussed in chat where you can put your strength where you want it, your tech, etc, etc based on the allotted amount of points.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-11-30 08:05:26
I can see having a small damage bonus for those who completed the "5 time, 5 styles" retirement cycle + Fame bonus.

What I can't see is why anyone would want to be immortal with a 80%+ win ratio. Unless you seriously like killing your chances for anyone to want to challenge you.

It always comes down to "how you express" your concerns, I suppose. Coming here and talking hate and smack will only make things worse and run Peter off for another year.

I say stay positive, and allow things to progress and see if it will work. I remember Brian Allan retiring shortly after the age cap was set....only to come back to the game and mention that he regretted making the hasty move without seeing how the cap "actually" worked. *Many Legends have went past the age cap to enjoy success in the VWO tournaments, just didn't dominate them ;)
Post by: killerkarl(109783)
2009-11-30 08:49:01
As of right now, I like the idea. I'll let it play out a little while and let you know what I officially think later on.


-TC Carroll
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-11-30 10:16:49
Have to wait and see how it plays out I suppose .. but gut reaction is that I don't like it.

Like Ray, having spent years (and cash) to earn the Damage Legend Bonus, to suddenly have it taken away without any warning feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth.

OK, the Fame 'bonus' may be beneficial in earning Legends more money, more quickly - but now, instead of being part of an 'elite' group of players - the Legends are walking around with a target on their backs for all players who will target the Legends in order to gain more money themselves.

This new Legend Bonus is an advantage for everybody, not just those of us who've worked our way through the game over the years.

On the plus side, it will give the Legends more opportunities to get matches (not that I've really had much trouble getting matches anyway) - on the downside, the damage Bonus was a far greater incentive to get to retirement than a generic Fame Bonus appears to be.

Had the Fame Bonus been JUST for the Legends, instead of for their opponents as well, it may have sweetened the move for me personally.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-11-30 10:38:49
Additional Comment:

Perhaps may have been better to CAP the Legend Bonus available (at say 5 - only get +1 for the first time you retire a style and then nothing for every subsequent retirement of the same style) and THEN bring in the Fame Bonus for subsequent retirement of the same style(s)

Would have seemed a 'fairer' way to do it in my opinion.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-11-30 12:14:08
I-I'm in shock! :')
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-11-30 12:18:58
Any change is good change in my opinion. Complaining about the place not being updated for years and then kicking up a fuss when it finally does seems a little ungrateful! See how things plan out, this could be the first of many changes and plus it's only experimental. I like the fact the damage bonus is gone because some untouchable characters will now be worth fighting.
Post by: Patch Adams(367239)
2009-11-30 12:28:21
Decisions, decisions ...

Use my 'Fame Bonus' to fight non-Legends and let them take advantage of it, or use my 'Fame Bonus' to fight other Legends and take extreme advantage of it ...

What would you do?

Basically saying that you'll probably still see lots of Legend v Legend matches (if not even more of them) so that they can buy more moves and Specials earlier than before - and the non-Legends may not get much benefit or anymore matches from this change.

Of all the things that could have changed, off all the changes that have been asked for and debated for years (new match types, Stable battles, improvements in Tags etc) .. why pick one that hasn't been mentioned in any great detail before?
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-11-30 14:13:48
Ok peter, if you are going to screw the legends most of who have donated for years to your game in case you have forgot, then no non legend will benefit from my legend fame bonus.

IF YOUR NOT A LEGEND WITHIN 100 EXP OF ME I WONT FIGHT YOU!

It would have been better just to have done a game reset and let everyone start all over from scratch with no legends at all. There is no reason for high levels to retire anymore.
I cant believe you made this change because of some cry baby legends. I really hope you rethink the lasting results of this, i know I dont support this change and my money will be used to support other games i play that doesnt screw it long term members.

Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-11-30 14:28:51
Hang on, i'm on the laptop so i don't have a 'serious business' macro at hand, await as i google...
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-11-30 14:31:39
Decided to remove this post because the macro was massive and i decided it defected from teh topic.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-11-30 14:52:52
Peter there are alot of problems with getting matches most of them is because of the decline of the player base, in my league there are a total of 39 players not all who are active.
it would have been better to have increased the amount of Ap we are given each 10 minutes. more Ap more matches for everyone. And it would help to increase the player base as well. Alot of people quit because they dont get enough Ap to make the game worth playing. i know at first glance you might think I cant do that it will hurt my revenue from people buying AP or donating to the game, but it wont as the player base increases so will the donations. please think about that.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-11-30 15:33:13
VOW needs an advertising campaign! :p
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2009-11-30 16:05:48
okay, so what are the benefits to retiring again? Oh, that's right nothing. So why should a person bother to play? Let alone buy AP to get to that retirement? I am glad I stopped donating to the game, this does not make it worth my money at all, not to mention the fact that I rarely play anymore due to the decrease in players hence not many people to fight. So what does that do for my "bonus" we all know that Fame decreases daily you can only get and keep high fame by fighting daily. Let's see my fame is...gee a whole whopping 60, boy people are going to be dying to fight me, NOT!!!! Peter has once again taken something away from those of us that have played the longest, some longer than me, doesn't seem fair or right. Guess it will be longer now between my appearances on VOW.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-11-30 17:13:35
so is it to balance out the game or because of crybaby legends who complained about not getting matches as you have stated two different reasons? 1 reason in the forum and a differant reason on the stat page.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-11-30 17:14:54
Quote:

Reason for change:
Some many times legends was having problems finding matches since no one wanted to fight them due to the damange bonus.

Actual effect of change:
1. Both legend and non legend will get more money from fighting the match.
2. A side effect of the legend having higher fame is that the non legend can get slightly higher fame bonus in some cases.

UNQUOTE

For the benefit of 'some many time legends' .. ALL Legends are now being penalised .. seems fair to me .. NOT!!!

Have to wonder how many 'some' is .. and who is included in this 'some' too.

BOTH those players who've worked (and donated) to get to Legend status benefit .. so we are now cash cows for all players and everybody benefits, not just the Legends .. again, does not seem right.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-11-30 17:16:59
Legends are now the one's with a target on their back to get bashed by those with more experience. I imagine I will spend most of my time declining matches.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-11-30 17:27:27
awww :p
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-11-30 21:58:30
What was the last actual ADDITION to the game ...

This is an amendment, a drastic change ...

Having thought about it some more, IF the change was purely beneficial to those who had 'earned' it (ie those who had retired) then perhaps it wouldn't be AS bad as it seems now.

I still think a combined Damage (capped/reduced maybe) + Fame Bonus (which could be taken advantage of by opponents) would be the best solution.

The decision to remove all damage bonus though does leave a lot to be desired
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-11-30 22:50:38
Your idea is surely better John, but this is just experimental currently and you've all gotten your knickers in a twist pretty early :p
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-11-30 23:29:00
Maybe so Aiden ... but if we all kept quiet about it, then it would be assumed we were all happy with it .. and it wouldn't remain experimental.

Change is good .. change just for the sake of change, and because one or two Legends (Mods???) complained about lack of matches .. well, that's not always for the best.

Would still like to see additions to the game rather than changes though ... add to the game instead of tweaking and messing about around the edges
Post by: bartdogg42(413563)
2009-11-30 23:42:30
About an hour ago my one-year old threw a tantrum because my wife and I wouldn't let him play with the specific Christmas tree ornament he wanted. We offered others but he wanted a specific one so he threw a fit.



I couldn't help but think of the so called "old guard" around here.



Threatening to stop your donation just because your legend bonus isn't as powerful is just cheap manipulation. The 10 year old says "Do as I say or I'm taking my ball and going home!" Offer your thoughts, sure, but man keep the base scheming away.



I'm starting to wonder if it's the "old guard's" need to justify their existence by winning at this game that is keeping new players from staying around. Oh no, your legend bonus isn't as powerful!



I joined about a month and a half ago. Should I have realistically zero shot at a match with Gigaton Joe, even though we are near the same experience? So to win a title I just need to hope that I don't happen to draw 3 or 4 time legends?



Come on, your bonus is to strong. If you can't see that then you haven't been paying attention. Stop the manipulation and let's just talk about reasonable solutions since you're so up in arms about it. As a relative noob I've mentioned I'd even be down for a smaller damage bonus. Maybe .25 instead of 1.



And the legend challenge thread is just silly. Keep fighting each other and don't accept matches with non-legends. Great strategy for getting new people on board. Surely you see that your greed will not enhance the enjoyment of new players at all?



Maybe some of the other threads were right. Maybe this is a sinking ship, but rather than it being the developers fault, it's only because some of the "old guard" are content solong as it sinks the way they want it to.



Yokozuna
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-11-30 23:51:59
Legend Bonus' don't take effect in tourneys


Also, good post.
Post by: Patch Adams(367239)
2009-12-01 00:02:59
Not sure who Yokozuna's post is aimed at really ... seeing as I've said all along about Capping the Damage Bonus at 5.

And seeing as he's the first to 'cry' about not fighting 1 or 2 time Legends, not sure how he can criticise the Legends for refusing to fight him either.

Why is a non-donator criticising somebody else for withdrawing their donation too.

All smacks of the non-donating, non-legend wanting it all their way to me

And the new 'strategy' isnt about attracting new players anyway .. it is about 'some legends' being able to get more matches.

Only way VOW will survive is for more players to be attracted to the game, more of those players to become donators, and, given the fact that the new 'bonus' isn't worth playing for anyway, the liklihood of that happening is negligible.

Yes .. REDUCE the damage bonus, or cap it .. which will still give an incentive for players to retire .. don't just scrap it and replace it with something that doesn't really benefit the Legends that greatly anyway.

A combined Fame/Damage Bonus would possibly give some (braver) players more incentive to risk fighting Legends with a reduced damage bonus .. their payout would be more to offset the risk of more damage being incurred.

Legends would still gat the added damage .. non-legends would still benefit from the additional fame

Most people happy I'd suggest
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2009-12-01 01:41:00
Rock II has 100 hidden fame bonus from being a 1 time Legend !! BLACK WOLF 1 has 300 hidden fame bonus from being a 3 times Legend !!

Rock II Effects
Win LMS +1
Money +499 $
Fame +6
Exp +5
Consciousness damage 104
Vital Life damage 11
Doctor Level 2

BLACK WOLF 1 Effects
Lose LMS +1
Money +156 $
Fame +1
Exp +1
Injury -2 Strength
Injury -1 Submission
Injury -1 Aerial
Consciousness damage 109
Vital Life damage 11
Doctor Level 2

not worth the damage, took me as much to heal as I made losing the match. The few matches that I have had today have all been the same, low payout didn't notice any kind of a difference there. Now Peter, want to explain where the benefit to me was in this? I will log in to check with friends that I have made here but as long as this "experiment" is going on, I won't be fighting any matches. I am not a cash cow.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-01 01:49:04
Yokozuna it is better to stay quiet and thought as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt, before you start cticizing long term players atleast know what you are talking about.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-01 02:18:59
I keep trying to wrap my head around this change and the thinking behind it, and I just dont get it. If certain legends couldnt get matches they should have got more creative that just to cry about it. if all else failed detached and started over. To punish all legends because a few cry babys is a crock. alot of legends have played a long time and helped by donating real money to the game and the reward was to retire and get a bonus. I dont think that the legends are holding there donations as a ransom and trying to force peter to change back the legend bonus, they just see there is no need to donate anymore because the payout is'nt beneficial to them, id you retire you get an additional fame in matches well not just them but who ever they fight. I see why alot of legends feel used, they are not rewarded for retiring but non legends who fight them are. Actually legends dont even need the damage bonus, they know the game mechanics and that is their real bonus, but legends have donated to the game to help pay for the derver in exchange for a promised damage bonus, its like buying one thing and given something else totally differant. I cant imagine any non legend to even understand, they just want matches that they think are winnable, I can understand that. but why should all the benefits ride on the legends back. Atleast give legends something worthwhile the fame bonus is crap. maybe the damage bonus needed to be changed, but fame is not the answer. that isnt rewarding legends for all their hard work and money invested in the game. hmmm, what would be a better incentive to retire. Maybe to make your own character where you could pick your starting moves from all available starting moves? I am open to changing the game if the legends are concidered and not just non legends. i think something needs to be done to bring more players to the game and once they are here to keep them here. I think the answer to that is giving more AP or lowing the cost of buying AP. new people come to this game and once they have used up there Ap leave and go play something else where they can have more than just a few matches a day, so the problem really is a AP problem, people need to come and beable to play longer so they will stay and not forget about vow. just some thoughts from a longtime player
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2009-12-01 03:58:22
Trying to intimidate me into not making changes to my games by saying you will withdraw donations have no effect on my decisions. I believe all of you who have been here for years have already noticed that.

There is very few constructive ideas posted by the players in this thread so right now it is not a big help to me. I ignore anything that are not constructive ideas.

My goal is simply to make the best possible game I can with my limited time.

While I am not saying that legends will only have fame bonus in the future I do think that the way ahead is to change legends so even a many time legend can lose to a new player of the same exp.

One guy told me recently that the whole idea of retiring to get damage bonus is a bit stupid. Maybe I was a bit stupid when I first came up with it. The reason for retirement should be that the game changes while played from scratch again.
Post by: bartdogg42(413563)
2009-12-01 04:03:36
Re: yar - This is good stuff, and this is what I was looking for:

"I keep trying to wrap my head around this change and the thinking behind it, and I just dont get it. If certain legends couldnt get matches they should have got more creative that just to cry about it. if all else failed detached and started over. To punish all legends because a few cry babys is a crock. alot of legends have played a long time and helped by donating real money to the game and the reward was to retire and get a bonus. I dont think that the legends are holding there donations as a ransom and trying to force peter to change back the legend bonus, they just see there is no need to donate anymore because the payout is'nt beneficial to them, id you retire you get an additional fame in matches well not just them but who ever they fight. I see why alot of legends feel used, they are not rewarded for retiring but non legends who fight them are. Actually legends dont even need the damage bonus, they know the game mechanics and that is their real bonus, but legends have donated to the game to help pay for the derver in exchange for a promised damage bonus, its like buying one thing and given something else totally differant. I cant imagine any non legend to even understand, they just want matches that they think are winnable, I can understand that. but why should all the benefits ride on the legends back. Atleast give legends something worthwhile the fame bonus is crap. maybe the damage bonus needed to be changed, but fame is not the answer. that isnt rewarding legends for all their hard work and money invested in the game. hmmm, what would be a better incentive to retire. Maybe to make your own character where you could pick your starting moves from all available starting moves? I am open to changing the game if the legends are concidered and not just non legends. i think something needs to be done to bring more players to the game and once they are here to keep them here. I think the answer to that is giving more AP or lowing the cost of buying AP. new people come to this game and once they have used up there Ap leave and go play something else where they can have more than just a few matches a day, so the problem really is a AP problem, people need to come and beable to play longer so they will stay and not forget about vow. just some thoughts from a longtime player"

A good, reasoned argument. Not this:

"Ok peter, if you are going to screw the legends most of who have donated for years to your game in case you have forgot, then no non legend will benefit from my legend fame bonus.

IF YOUR NOT A LEGEND WITHIN 100 EXP OF ME I WONT FIGHT YOU!

It would have been better just to have done a game reset and let everyone start all over from scratch with no legends at all. There is no reason for high levels to retire anymore.
I cant believe you made this change because of some cry baby legends. I really hope you rethink the lasting results of this, i know I dont support this change and my money will be used to support other games i play that doesnt screw it long term members."

And by the way, this just made me laugh:

"Yokozuna it is better to stay quiet and thought as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt, before you start cticizing long term players atleast know what you are talking about."

I'd say it is probably best to use grammar correctly. It's also probably wise not to call someone a "fool" while simultaneously spelling criticize with an extra "t" and using a run-on sentence. But I suppose that's just me :) And thought "as a fool" or thought "a fool?" ;)
Post by: killerkarl(109783)
2009-12-01 04:26:55
A lot of this talk seems...highly extreme.


I like the fame bonus. I donated for 2 years. I'm a one time legend.

Maybe when someone retires they should have a choice of 100 fame bonus or +1 damage. Maybe cap them both at 5 a piece?
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-01 04:52:24
Ya at 1st I was hot headed and my anger showed through my post sorry about that. I do hope that there will be more thought put in the Legend change though.
Post by: Captain Stupendous(38517)
2009-12-01 05:20:32
I have retired 5 times and never donated once. Nowhere on the Donations page does it say that donators are entitled to any kind of damage bonus. Donations will get you faster AP regeneration, a removal of the 500 AP cap, and 2 extra character slots to play with. That's it.

Donations were never intended to be used to accumulate game imbalancing bonuses. Donations are available to give you more of what you love: the core game experience. If players feel that there's no reason to play the game again, then that is a problem. Ideally, deciding to play VOW a second time would be like riding a really good roller coaster: the ride should be so awesome that you want to experience it again and again. Donations should be encouraged by enhancing the core experience, not by enticing veterans with promises of power.

What the game needs is growth. It needs to be entertaining enough to warrant multiple playthroughs. If the core game becomes fun enough that we can do away with giving legends virtual steroids, then baby, we've hit the sweet spot.

Peter has his eyes on the game again. Let's put aside the negativity and use this opportunity to give him some constructive criticism on how to improve VOW so that we can all reach that sweet spot together.
Post by: bartdogg42(413563)
2009-12-01 05:20:56
My apologies as well.
Post by: bartdogg42(413563)
2009-12-01 05:22:26
Great post el capitan.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-01 05:43:24
"Trying to intimidate me into not making changes to my games by saying you will withdraw donations have no effect on my decisions. I believe all of you who have been here for years have already noticed that"

Peter I dont think people are telling you that if you dont change the legend bonus back they will quit donating for that reason. They are telling you that with the current changes there is no reason to donate anymore or buy Ap because retiring doesnt mean anything, legends dont get any benefit or incentive to try to retire as soon as possible.

"There is very few constructive ideas posted by the players in this thread so right now it is not a big help to me. I ignore anything that are not constructive ideas"

I agree there is alot of anger in this thread, but i think you had to expect that, alot of long term players who have put alot of time in this game have been stripped of what they have been playing for, and sometimes paying for, and it seems you are so willing to just dismiss their thoughts and feelings. I think their should be some loyalty to long time players who have helped support this game.

"My goal is simply to make the best possible game I can with my limited time"

If it is your goal to do this have you thought about maybe talking to the long term players who have been loyal to your game and also want to improve it? Maybe make a special section in the forum to accomplish this. And maybe if your time is limited, put it up for sale to someone who has more time. it is a great game but it is dying and something should be done, and if you dont want to sell it out right maybe make a long term player an admin to help you.


"While I am not saying that legends will only have fame bonus in the future I do think that the way ahead is to change legends so even a many time legend can lose to a new player of the same exp"

Um it was already that way, the legend damage bonus, was only a chance for the damage and even with it the legends lost lots of times around their own experience. I dont think bring back the damage bonus is the answer, because real legends know the game mechanics and that is better than a damage bonus, but at the same time I think legends should be rewarded with something for all the time they put into the game.

"One guy told me recently that the whole idea of retiring to get damage bonus is a bit stupid. Maybe I was a bit stupid when I first came up with it. The reason for retirement should be that the game changes while played from scratch again"

I can buy into that, but as is it doesnt change the game for a person that retires, it just paint a target on his back for people with more experience to try to bash the legend for his fame bonus. Maybe a legend bashing rule is needed like the noob bashing rule. So do you have any idea's that you would like to share with us that would fit into the idea that the game changes after retiring, because right now it doesn't, all you get to do is play again from scratch nothing new or exciting, I just don't see any reason for anyone to retire right now, I have watched some legend matches and the payout isn't much different than before. I was even in a all legend rumble and the payout was negligible.

I think everyone wants to see the game evolve but everyone needs to be taken into consideration. There needs to be a bonus to make people want to retire and become legends. Also we need to get more people playing the game and stay once they do start playing, with the current AP system new players just dont get enough matches for them to stay and become a loyal player of your game. I hope you will give some of what i have said some serious thought, you know i have played this game along time and enjoy this game, I am willing to talk to you anytime and help in anyway i can.
Sincerely
DARKLORD





Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2009-12-01 06:00:14
well, so far it has been mentioned to cap the damage/fame bonus, is that like the stat cap? and aging? while we are at it let's cap how many specials we can have, after all that is an added edge for those that decide not to retire. It has been two years since there has been any changes made to this game, and now we have this along with a vague promise of some future benefits that might actually benefit the legend, guess I will be waiting to see what and how long it takes to implement those before I start fighting any matches again. Because as it stands right now, there is no benefit for anyone but my opponent.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-01 07:27:52
I think it would be fair to keep the fame bonus, but give something extra to those who have retired all 5 styles...

Like the idea of giving us an alotted amount of stats to set wherever we want them and like was said earlier... Let us pick our starting moves from all the starting moves available. If we could build unique characters then the long term appeal would definitely be there, and the game would be replayable again and again. Since there are style advantages like trad has more pinning ability, stiff necks take less damage, etc... Then you would also have to let us pick our ability. This to me would add a lot of fun to the game and keep me retiring for the fame and for the different builds I could do.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-12-01 07:39:44
Brodys 2 cents


I. I see a compromise working here. Cap the Legend Bonus at +5, and no cap on Fame Bonus. *Fame Bonus starts from the first retirement.
II.
The strongest complaints made in this Thread, are the same ones who have complained about every major change to the game, over many years.
III. IF you are truly unsatisfied with the game as it is currently operated, then by all means follow your heart and take your checkbook with you. There are THOUSANDS of online games to choose from. I personally would rather see you go elsewhere and be happy, than sit here in VOW and feel that you are wasting your time...and bringing me down with your sadness and malcontent.
IV. "My money spent on the game"- Guess what folks? It took me awhile to figure this out (*because I'm dumb as a rock). ALL that money you and I spent over the years...earned us a place to play, meet people, make friends, and have fun. That money DID NOT: Entitle anyone special privileges or the right to dictate how the game is operated. What I mean to say is, we paid to play...and we did. It sickens me to see Donator's use their financial status to sling mud and make idle threats. The owner has stated that he will not be swayed by these threats...so I recommend those who made them here in this Thread...to...PONY UP, and follow through with them. Leave please :)

Bottom line is, you complained about every change or idea that has hit this Forum. To the suggestion that there needs to be a dedicated section of the Forum to discuss "future" updates or changes -- Peter has been doing that since the beginning lol. Remember what happened with every "Development" Thread made? They all resulted in the same selfish, "I said this stuff back in...", "what about me, myself, and I" garbage.

I'm here to offer my assistance to the game and it's creator/owner, in ANY way that I can. And this time around, I'll be happy to see positive movement of any kind for the game...REGARDLESS whether my personal submissions were implemented, or if any of the changes made to VOW make me immortal. I'm here to enjoy the game, hopefully meet new people and make friends, and mostly to have fun with existing friends :) :) :)

P.S. Before anyone decides to threaten to "slow" down their gameplay or take time off because they don't approve of things...make sure that your current Fame level is at least above the average LAW upon promotion to SPWA. Otherwise, no one will really consider your departure as anything but "inevitable".

Brody
Post by: killerkarl(109783)
2009-12-01 08:34:09
"Cap the Legend Bonus at +5, and no cap on Fame Bonus. *Fame Bonus starts from the first retirement."


+1
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-12-01 08:36:23
Brodys 2 cents


Expanding on David's idea:
When a player retires, his base list of moves is halved, and the Legend get's to personalize his base move list by picking the other half? This would require changing the total moves on the base move list to an even number.

This would be done w/o a Dmg Bonus plan, of course. I wouldn't recommend giving someone a completely empty Base Move list to fill.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-01 09:48:05
Only moves you would be able to pick are the main and secondary moves. Like for tech the secondary move is Neck Snap, and for Power the main move is Bear Hug. The basic moves would stay since they can't be bought anyway.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-12-01 10:47:20
Like Ray ... the reason that I will no longer donate is because there is no longer any need to rush to retirement (under the current test format anyway). As all my suggestions have indicated, I'm open to a compromise position that doesn't feel like the 4 years of game play and numerous donations I've made have been for nothing.

I do not see how changing the bonus achieved for retiring so drastically will make the player base any bigger nor encourage people to want to retire anyway.

Players will be targetting the Legends, so non-Legends will find matches harder to come by (at least once they've finished bashing the noobs in LAW)

This is a major change .. not a major addition to the game. There is a difference.

If we want more active players, want new players to stick around longer and potentially become donators, then something needs to be done to encourage new players and to make them want to stay.

Clamp down on those players who target the noobs, introduce a 'training' section for new starters, improve the AP awards/generation and caps, bring in more matches etc etc

I'm sure all these would be seen as a positive move.

Capping of damage bonus ... combination of damage bonus + fame bonus ... don't have the Legend Bonus kicking in until SPWA maybe (so Law's aren't feeling 'bashed' by legends)

And, finally, to pick up on something Bruiser Brody has said .. I for one did not complain about previous major changes such as Ageing, have never complained about not being able to get matches and, although very vocal in my criticisms of things that have happened (including this one) have always tried to add to the debate instead of being totally negative.

We need changes, I'd welcome changes - but this change (as it stands) is not going to make a major difference to player base nor improve the game play.
Post by: killerkarl(109783)
2009-12-01 12:43:58
"When a player retires, his base list of moves is halved, and the Legend get's to personalize his base move list by picking the other half?"

"Only moves you would be able to pick are the main and secondary moves. Like for tech the secondary move is Neck Snap, and for Power the main move is Bear Hug. The basic moves would stay since they can't be bought anyway."


I really like the idea of picking the 3 moves you start off with. (For instance, PGs have Bear Hug, Big Boot, and Splash) The only problem is that would kind of take away from picking a class to start with. It would make me look forward to retiring, that's for sure.



"introduce a 'training' section for new starters"

That's a excellent idea. I think if we could have a system to teach players the game it would really keep them around longer.



"improve the AP awards/generation"

I don't really have an AP problem at the moment, but if I did I would love this idea. I think the upcoming "Battle of Stamina" may have something to due with testing of higher AP regeneration.



"bring in more matches"

This would add several things to the game and bring in a whole new life for vets.


I've got another idea that could really keep the game exciting for veterans. Perhaps bring in some new wrestler types? Maybe just have a class called Legend and that's where you could pick your starting 3 moves for your move set
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-01 13:11:18
All posts in this thread before Cap'n Stu's should be removed. That was right on the money, man, great post. :)
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-01 13:22:04
Basically the changes i think we need at the moment is anything to keep the playerbase here. Attract new people and keep them?

So what keeps you coming back?
For me it's the community, great people on here :)
As for the game i'm afraid i've lost interest, as have many, so any updates are good updates in my opinion. Let's just see how things go i'm sure Peter's working on something great. :)
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-12-01 13:40:31
What keeps me coming back?

Good question ...

In the past, it was the 'community' .. but that has died off ... the goal of reaping the rewards of retiring multiple times. The rewards were worth having, but now, those rewards aren't there, so that has gone too.

Final reason, and one that would be hard (but not impossible) to break is that after spending so much time in developing my wrestlers over the years, it seems like a waste to just let them 'die' ... something I'm sure that is played on by Peter.

BUt, until we know what this 'something great' that Peter is working on is, then it is impossible to judge whether or not it is worth sticking around for.

The promise of things to come ... well, we've all seen that before and nothing has come of it, so excuse my cynicsim that a major develoment is 'just around the corner'
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-01 14:14:40
I have to agree with John, how many times has peter talked about doing something and not fo;;owed through with it? alot!

Peter has already admitted that he has limited time to devote to this game, so thinking he is working on something great is just wishful thinking if you ask me.

The best thing peter could do for the game right now is'nt changing it in anyway, but taking steps to increase the player base. i have some idea's on how to accomplish this:

1, Advertise as I have heard alot of you say.

2, start a player referral system, where we get some kind of small bonus for every person that we bring into the game/

2, bring back voting contest. It will raise the ranking on the voting sites and gamers will be more likely to check us out.

I would like to say, as in any business your customers are your life's blood, if you don't care what your customers are saying then you lose your customers and profitability goes down. So Peter stating that you dont care what the donators of this game say is like cutting your own throat. I dont feel that they should be able to force you into anything but the message i get is you dont care how much people have donated to the game, it is your game and you will do what you like with it regardless. I personally don't feel that is the right attitude to have. As a donator i would like to feel that I am not being used just for my money that the owner actually cares about customer satisfaction. just some thought to ponder.
Post by: bartdogg42(413563)
2009-12-01 15:20:46
"bring back voting contest. It will raise the ranking on the voting sites and gamers will be more likely to check us out."

Yes! +1

"start a player referral system, where we get some kind of small bonus for every person that we bring into the game"

Yes! +1

"introduce a 'training' section for new starters"

Yes! +1

"Cap the Legend Bonus at +5, and no cap on Fame Bonus. *Fame Bonus starts from the first retirement."

Hmm. I'm still scared of a +5 Damage bonus. Maybe cap it at 2? Even 3?
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-12-01 15:30:01
'Hmm. I'm still scared of a +5 Damage bonus. Maybe cap it at 2? Even 3? '

The idea of giving Legends extra FIXED Fame to go with their POTENTIAL increased damage bonus is to give their opponents more of an incentive to fight them, plus extra cash to offset any possible damages incurred.

No point in playing if you're scared of getting the occassional stat damage really.

+5 Max seems fair to me ... can't help with your phobia though.

From a business point of view, the idea should be to encourage players to donate - and nothing about the game at the moment actually encourages me to continue doing so.
Post by: Texas Hangman(271199)
2009-12-01 15:31:55
How about a specific high damage move or moves that becomes available apon each retirement? This would cut down on the amount of damage done by legends but still provide a slight damage bonus.

Just a thought
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-12-01 16:17:08
I. I'm sure Peter does care, otherwise he wouldn't even bother at all. It's the eye that ponders the message, I suppose. But, what I collected from his statements are that he's not going to be "bullied" by threats. There's a mature way to handle things, and if Peter see's someone bashing him right out of the gate...then don't be surprised if you get ignored.

II. Another thing to think about. The large majority of FREE to PLAY online games out there...ALL restart or reset after a designated time period. I'm sure this common practice is exercised to prevent players from becoming "too big to beat". Players of those games, donate money, spend lots of time on the perfect strat, knowing full well their efforts will be done when the "phase" is completed. Be humble and thankful that Peter made VOW with a non-linear timeline, otherwise this discussion of "Legend Status" would be a moot point.

III. I can understand some of you having ill feelings about certain changes to the game, past and present. But it's the same old story for every DEV thread, " I'm going to quit or stop playing if...". If the roles were reversed people, would you stand by and let a small few "dictate" to you how you'll operate your own game? I think not. Sometimes, you have to cut the fat in order to move forward. Losing accounts and even donation accounts, are apart of the evolution of online games.

IV. Look back at how trivial the Age Cap was, in respect to the overwhelming negative response by the Veteran base. Observe how the Age Cap was a major change to alot of people, and the actual small impact in overall gameplay it had. People retired and quit because they didn't give the Cap enough time to see the impact, MOSTLY because of the HUGE negative attacks perpetrated by a small group...which amazingly are still playing the game today. "Egos" need to be put in check, for the greater good of any game.

It's my understanding that because of the declining playerbase, "networks" have been set up to "keep the challenges flowing". Don't complain if these become obsolete.CASE IN POINT: The Veterans of VOW need to give things a chance and quit damning every action taken to improve the game. LOL, you guys have speculated the game to death, and these new changes aren't even 72 hours old? This might be why Peter DID NOT call for a new DEV thread first, before implementing things. Think about that. :) :)

"The current speculation of trends is proportional to results of past speculations multiplied by the different flavors of pie presented"
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-01 16:33:30
I like you BB but quit brown nosing bro, peter doesnt need you to fight his fight. The aging cap was brought on because of one player, i dont think it was justified, just dont fight him was the answer. Those changes have little or no effect, but at the time it scared alot of people who wanted to be legends and they quit even brian allen, who only plays once in awhile. As long as I donate i will have input I am not just going to someone my money without voicing my concern, I have played to long and donated too much money just to sit idly by. I want change as much as anyone but not if it is detrimental to the game as so many of his changes has been. I am not quitting vow untill it dies and is removed fro the web, but i wont support it financially either if i dont see a benefit in it for me.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-12-01 16:38:17
ROFL Ray. Brown nosing...good one. :P

Understood. I'm the same way. I'll play the game til one of us dies :).
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-12-01 16:42:03
All good points BB .. although, it does seem like the current change being tested has also been brought about by the complaints of a 'few' as opposed to a general consensus of opinion .. seeing as there hasn't been a general consensus of opinion anyway.

I can understand the need to limit the 'power' of a select few current players, I understand the need for change to stop the deterioration in numbers playing the game (and to hopefully increase the numbers both playing and donating) ... but is the current test format the answer?

I don't think so to be honest.

Targeting the more powerful players, those players who have invested a lot of time (and money in a lot of cases) into building their wrestlers, is the 'easy' option really ... those players are less likely to leave the game after spending so much time on their wrestlers.

More than willing to give Peter time to ADD developments to the game ... some idea of what those developments will be would be a step in the right direction to appeasing current fears.

Stat caps + Ageing were brought in to stop players becoming too powerful - moves I championed at those times - if this amendment being tested was of a similar vein, I'd champion that too. But, I think it has gone too far in reducing the benefits of being a Legend and is more beneficial to my opponents now.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-01 16:47:05
ok brown nosing is a little too harsh, but it does seem you are championing his cause for some unknown reason. and by the way he has trimmed so much fat over the years there isnt much fat left to trim if you know what i mean. We need to keep people here not drive them away.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-12-01 17:20:00
I forgot to mention something several have touched base on here:

If you take a close look at the history of thhe PLIT player base, one can see a dramatic shift in the numbers NOT from the elective changes, BUT directly related to the de-activation of the....VOTING pages (FREE advertising).

Also, if I remember correctly, there IS a promotion still posted on PLIT where you get rewards for channeling someone to the game, and that person becomes a donator. It's posting in the "Affiliate Program" section. That of course, works for websites and not individuals. Maybe Peter could expand on that concept and make it to where we benefit from "sponsorships"...where a player invites another to play PLIT, and they get credit if the sponsored account spends money on PLIT. I do not like the idea of blindly giving credit to people JUST because a new account is created...that would lead to MASSIVE abuse.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-01 17:26:49
ya i would agree with that. I would say a person would need to get to a certain level before any reward was given like in a lot of games, I wouldnt say they have to spend money though, the more people we get to vow the more donations will come, its just a numbers game.
Post by: bartdogg42(413563)
2009-12-01 18:44:05
I would actually be pretty in favor of a re-boot with the old legend bonus. Part of the bummer about noobs v legends is that we simply haven't had the time. Seeing as I only found the game a couple months ago it seems hardly fair to handicap me because the game has been around a while.

And as the voice of the only noob to have posted on here I would expect that to be a universal statement for all of us.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-01 19:06:04
total game reset you know I like that idea.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-12-01 21:42:46


http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/75/scottmillartribute209.jpg
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-01 21:55:50
5 years down the pan? no thanks :p

I'd feel like poor old Ermac :/
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-01 21:56:21
Ok, I beat a guy and got Money +588 and he beat me and got about 800? Can you boost our oppononet's fame too? Seems like they get more than we do.

Also, I have yet another suggestion that could replace the damage bonus in a more fair way...

Give the legends special abilities that can also cause DQ, and let us turn them off or on in the staff menu (With the only cost being that risk of DQ.)

Retire a trad and get "Pin with feet on ropes," or "Dirty Pin."

Retire a Stiff Neck and get "Brass Knuckle" shot.

Retire an aerialist and get "Flying Elbow through a table."

Retire a PG and get "Chair Shot" or "Piledriver onto a Steel Chair."

Retire a tech and get "Low Blow."

You could even make it where certain moves are required to use them.

It would be more tempting for people to fight us with the fame and with this "bonus" because they'd have to ask themselves...

1. Will he do it and risk DQ?

2. If he does it will he be DQed?

3. Is it worth the money?

4. Does he have the moves to pull it off?
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-01 22:04:16
"Give the legends special abilities that can also cause DQ, and let us turn them off or on in the staff menu (With the only cost being that risk of DQ.) "
I like this idea because i'm in favour of anything that adds new strategy elements to the current game. I also like all your suggestions for the afforementioned moves.


I would also like a 'quote' feature in the forums, ha but that's just me! :p
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-01 22:13:48
and maybe signatures
and postcounts (me and Suepah would be in the 6 figures)
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-12-02 11:20:55
Reset the game???

Whoever came up with that idea needs to be taken out the back and pelted with rotten eggs and Ric Flair's used undergarments!!!!!

Some good ideas being expressed on here though .. but that one is the worst idea in the history of bad ideas since Vince decided to screw over Bret!!!
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-02 11:30:56
Agreed Dyna, resetting our characters altogether is a horrible idea. I worked too long to walk away with nothing, would rather have little than nothing.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-02 12:50:29
Vince decided to screw over Bret?

Pfft it was a work. xD
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-02 13:22:31
ya when I said resetting the whole game was the best idea, or what ever I said i was being sarcastic lol really bad idea.
Post by: kayjaybarackus(398698)
2009-12-03 20:38:55
After reading every single post here, i have felt alot of emotions and have wanted to do... and say alot of things. All in all, I've kinda come up with this.

I play this game, because I love it. I honestly can say this game has me addicted. There is no other game like this one and I really can't get enough of it, add in the fact it can go hand it hand with Proboards or Invisionfree to make an online wrestling federation and it really tops it for me.

I donate to this game,

A) because if I didnt I wouldn't be able to play. I'd be serving a lengthy ban on my IP adress due to the face I'd have three seperate accounts running. For me this game is like a drug, It kills my boredom like no other and in the past i've been willing to risk my entire character and account to get more of it. (Once was caught with a high PWO, low SPWA and a LAW)

B) I love that AP bonus and the fact theres no AP cap. Nothing better than going way for a holiday and returning to 5k+ AP. Although in my case... It's normally gone by the weeks end.

Why I didn't donate: I can tell you right now. It wasn't t be unbeatable, have a rediculous advantage over another player during a match or so I can retire faster.
(I swear, when Cobrita used to get hit for 15* damage during one of Mad Max's brutal headlocks, I could have *a certain word that will not be mentioned* cried...

Also I'd be lying if I said I donated to make Peter happy. Wanted to say it but couldn't XD

Alot of people that have posted in this thread should first take a second look at the posts they have written... and then at themselves. Some of it's really just nonsical.

I'm sure I can muster plenty more to say but... I'll wait till later on.

Kane: out for now.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-03 23:40:02
This conversation has lost its topic entirely.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-04 03:14:43
I couldnt agree more
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2009-12-05 00:49:24
And i wasn't even in it!!!
:O
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-05 11:10:20
Come on guys, I know most of you have some ideas to add here. Now's the time with Peter making changes.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-05 22:12:33
Chocolate Microscopes.
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2009-12-06 15:29:16
New levels on AF!
More monsters on SfP...

Free donation for everyone! ;)
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-06 18:03:28
Tutorial System for new players.
More advertising.

Legend Bonus change, The damage bonus gave the legends too much of an advantage. The fame bonus makes legends cry. So i think a compromise needs to happen.

New fighting styles????? :D :D :D

New Graphics, little belts that get added to your wrestler stats for whichever belt you currently hold would be cool.

Tag Team tourneys

Make Stables mean something.

Face/Heel system or gimmick system.
Post by: Bulldog Butcher(330287)
2009-12-06 19:30:56
I second most of what Aiden said. Whether or not it was said before, I don't know. tl;dr



But as far as the legends bonus debate goes, here's an idea I just came up with. Since most of the people that haven't put or haven't been allotted the time it takes to retire don't want to be mauled by a several time legend's high damage moves... what about making a retiree's moves less likely or unable to be countered? Or maybe even all the bonuses that each individual wrestling style gets- with an additional bonus to the original one known as a secondary bonus. (i.e. A legend can choose one of the wrestling classes' bonuses to add to the one that comes with his/her wrestler class.) Along with the idea of letting legends pick the three secondary moves they start with... except being able to pick ANY three moves out of the locker room. Just tossing around ideas, constructive criticism or elaboration appreciated :)



-Psycho Savage
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2009-12-06 23:10:20
Having used my trio of legends, I've decided that the changes are good, but could be better.

The damage bonus is only potential and really doesn't become much trouble until after the third retirement (which was the base level for a one time legend when retirement was first implemented). A +2 legend bonus on anything but the PG style is like playing in PG style but with a little more firepower in the lower end moves.

Is 100 fame per retirement a great incentive to retire for an active play? Not really.

Is it a great incentive to someone like Bubba Gump (for example) who would play once, stock up 100k AP and then blitz through again - of course! A few hundred fame will make you more attractive to the opposition and has a minimal effect on what you earn as well.

There should have been some happy medium between the two ideas, maybe alternate between the fame bonus and the damage bonus, so a four time legend would have 200 fame and a +2 potential damage increase. Again, I stress the word potential for all those that complained that legends were overpowered. For those who claimed that they were "unbeatable", look at the last few multi time legend retirements:

Darklord - 4 time legend
Record: 1333-776
Win percentage: 63.2

Edifier
Record: 1405-735
Win percentage: 65.6

Now does the legend bonus have an effect on these win percentages? Of course they do. However, both have lost over 700 times each per run. Surely if the legend bonus was that great, then surely their win percentages would be closer to 90.

Yes, the game needs to retain the new blood, however, how much hand holding do they need? No longer is the game about having half a brain, it's now becoming a case of cry when someone gets an advantage that they've earned through playing the game. Note: I've not mentioned anything about the amount of money earned as some people have multiple retirements without spending a cent/penny/Euro/camel/insert currency here.

When the game started coming up to six years ago, people started with 500ap (now 2500). There was no staff and injuries were horrid. There was no Wiki manual and there was no such thing as challenge restrictions. Nowadays, the new players are having their hands held, whether they choose to accept the help or not is their choice.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-06 23:33:20
They need MORE hand holding, the game is difficult to grasp and it's hard to maintain a solid playerbase. It's been hovering around 2900 total characters for awhile.

I'm trying to save as many people as i can from giving up and quitting but it's bloody hard! It's too hard to explain how to play the game to a new person without writing a full essay. We desperately need a tutorial feature.


Another MAJOR feature i would like is feedback. Feedback from Peter/mods/admins/coders whatever, just so we know what's going on and what the plans are.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-07 02:01:28
um Legend killer I am a 5 time Legend lol But i agree whole heartedly with LK. This game isnt that hard to grasp the basics. I think the problem is waiting so long to get enough Ap to fight a match after their origional 2500 is gone. They get bored and leave. you want people to stay increase the amount of Ap. once you get to 0 Ap you have to wait over 2 hours to fight just a single, longer if you need to heal. in that time if they play the competitors game, they could have had 6 matches. They just want to play so it isnt hard to figure out where the players are going.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2009-12-07 09:05:25
You was a four time legend on your last run ;) now you're a five timer.
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-07 11:44:53
oh i see what you are saying lol
Post by: HiloVegasMMA(403570)
2009-12-08 00:13:54
As "yar" and some more of you can attest I had no problem fighting legends before the change. Now this fame bonus will be good for me if I can continue to get matches with legends :)
Post by: HiloVegasMMA(403570)
2009-12-08 00:15:32
I also think it is more realistic and genuine to real life. Brett Favre didn't get any faster or stronger each time he retired, but he sure did get a lot of publicity :)
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-08 00:53:07
So much publicity that i have no idea who he is :)
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-08 00:55:37
well if we are going to compare it to real life I would say that when real wrestlers retired, they quit competing for their respected business. On here we dont we become Legends and keep playing. Realistically how many new wrestlers would step in with a legend like the "Undertaker" and win? I would say none! And who would get paid more, the Legend or the new wrestler? of course the Legend, But here in VOW that just isnt so. If a new player wins a LMS they make more money than the legend around 800.00 If the Legend wins they make around 500.00 Currently the game is set up where the legends are stepping stones for new players. Which I am ok with, I just feel that the Legends should get some benefit as well. As the current Legend bonus doesnt benefit them as much as a non Legend that beats them.
I truelly dont know what benefit Legends of the game should get to be honest If we are going to keep the game more even as far as playability goes. I thought of a few things, maybe for every retirement a new spot is opened in your stable, but stable are already pretty big and not everyone belongs to a stable. Maybe your name in a special color in chat? Maybe move and special prices reduced a small amount with each retirement. Maybe with each retirement you are awarded some free AP. I think there are alot of things that could be awarded Legends in place of their damage bonus that has been taken away. But to remove a bonus that legends could take advantage of (damage Bonus) and replace it with something that helps non legends more than them, seem like a slap in the face.
Post by: kayjaybarackus(398698)
2009-12-08 05:35:28
I like the free ap on retirement, or maybe even a months free donation. That'd be pretty cool.

Legends are always gonna be hard to beat anyway, especially the multiple time legends. You guys just know the game so well, and are very good at buying the best moves at the right time. I'm still being hurt by most of you guys, especially you Ray. It's almost as if your legend bonus hasnt gone anywhere, KAYJAY used to beat you more when you had it :P
Post by: yar(35506)
2009-12-08 07:00:16
maybe we still have it and it is just hidden lol ya the Ap bonus would be what I like.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-09 01:27:29
I would say the only time the legend's bonus was significant was in the lower leagues like LAW and SPWA. I think keep the fame bonus, but give us our damage bonus back once we hit PWO. Just an opinion.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-09 06:17:25
Another idea would be to match the fame bonus for people we face too. So, since I have 600 fame bonus any oppononet I face would have it too... That way both players profit equally.
Post by: Patch Adams(367239)
2009-12-14 14:31:21
So, two weeks since the 'temporary' change to 'test' how the new format will work ...

Question is: Are we now stuck with this change?

If not - how much longer will it be active for?
Post by: Backyard Brawler(247809)
2009-12-14 20:35:15
This thread reeks of

Ray: "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH I'M NOT INVINCIBLE ANYMORE SO TO SPITE PETER I'M GOING TO HELP BE A CANCER KILLING THE GAME, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

Newish Users: "Sweet, this gives me more incentive to play the game and face legends who previously destroyed me but will still most likely anyway because they make more money per match and will retire again, even faster."

Ray: "NO IT WON'T! I'M FACING LEGENDS ONLY. NEW USERS CAN GO DIE IN A FIRE, WE DON'T NEED NEW PLAYERS."

Aiden: "Sweet I get more fame, almost everyone gets more fame, good for everyone."

Ray: (More whining)

Seriously... I've put money into this game too, how about wait for a little while until its test period is over to act like a 2 year old?

Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-15 01:16:55
I don't think targeting someone in this thread and turning this to a personal attack will get anything positive done. Play nice and let's give more ideas. Seriously, how can Peter know what we want if we don't tell him?
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-15 01:48:02
yeah don't target me! i never say 'sweet'!!!
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2009-12-15 09:50:47
Well that's for sure!

And even if Ray were to start all over with a new character, he'd kick your ass!

Ray is allmighty ;)
Don't blame him... Blame Tes! She's the one that makes him allmighty :)

(oh, say Hi to Tess from me again, will you, Ray?)
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2009-12-15 14:26:55
Captain Stupendous: " Ideally, deciding to play VOW a second time(retirement) would be like riding a really good roller coaster: the ride should be so awesome that you want to experience it again and again. Donations should be encouraged by enhancing the core experience, not by enticing veterans with promises of power. "

The Legend Killer: " Surely if the legend bonus was that great, then surely their win percentages would be closer to 90. "

I have seen several Legends lose nearly 10% on their "Total win %", since the changes. That's down from 70%+ to a more realistic realm of the 60's. As for searching "past" win percentages of Legends, common sense should kick in and you realize that once players reach the higher two Leagues (even multi Legends), the quality of players challenged increases dramatically, and thus "anyone's" Total win percentage will drop down (well, not those who managed to retire with 80% or better). Which basically asks the question " what's the real point of having +5 - +10 Damage Bonus, IF you have 1337 skills anyway? ".

I agree with what Captain Stu said, you retire not to strengthen some figment of immortality, but to "play the game again and again".
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2009-12-15 15:06:36
Playing the game again + again without any significant change in how the game is played becomes tedious though surely?

All boils down to how much enjoyment you get out of the game really and what the incentive is to become a Legend ... and I'll repeat again, the 'new' 'bonus' is only an incentive for our opponents, not for the Legends
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-15 15:12:53
I've lost interest in VOW again. The Battle of Stamina was just too awesome that playing normal VOW is incredibly boring. :/

Just in time because my donation runs out in like 6 hours or more.

(i know i said it did the other day but i read it wrong xD)
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2009-12-16 00:53:05
I just felt I had to add this to the discussion:


You're welcome.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-16 01:50:45
Either i misread my donation AGAIN!!!! or someone added 2 days to it.. :/
Post by: BubbaG(33460)
2009-12-17 17:32:47
"you retire not to strengthen some figment of immortality, but to "play the game again and again"

OH MY GOD, I'm not Immortal????
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-18 00:19:01
OH MY GOD, You play VOW????
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-18 16:47:51
I thought about this some more, I think that I'd be happy with this change if our pay out was based off our own fame instead of the fame of the person we're fighting. It would make more sense too, I think someone else already said this... But I'm more inclined to agree now.
Post by: bartdogg42(413563)
2009-12-18 22:00:20
I agree with Bret Hart about this. If I (Yokozuna) would beat Edifier in a match my payout would be much more than his if he beat me. It just seems off.

I always thought the payout was decided by the total fame of all participants. Is this not how the hidden fame bonus works?

I just think the legend should receive the benefit of the hidden fame bonus as well as the opponent.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2009-12-19 18:45:07
Fame applies to both you and the opponent, but the opponent will benefit more from your fame and vice versa. Losing the legend bonus hasn't really done much for me. Still get the wimps who duck out of matches and the only ones who accept are those who are out of the "optimum" exp range (circa 10 percent plus or minus).
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-21 09:17:36
I'll agree with that too LK, same old same old... They either decline or they leave you sitting forever until you take it down yourself.
Post by: Scotland1983(398716)
2009-12-22 05:48:08
both non legend and legend should benefit leagend gets back damage bonus up to +2 damage or something like that and non legend getns a fame boost and both get better money from matchs that may work
Post by: kayjaybarackus(398698)
2009-12-23 05:22:27
Why not just make it that legends have a permanent money increase to when they win. add like 50-100$ on to each retirement, whilst still keeping the fame.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-24 01:03:57
What you all fail to realise is... this is a game.
Game's must have winners and losers.

So, i hereby declare myself the winner and VOW is now finished. Good Day to you all, enjoy the rest of your lives.
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2009-12-24 01:05:47
If anyone now continues to play VOW from this point you are just in denial and will be prosecuted.


Also i'm bored without a donation, can you tell?
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2009-12-26 15:34:55
I've been there for a long time...
But I still am here :)
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2009-12-27 06:14:14
I like the money idea of adding $50-$100 per retirement to our match pay outs. That would be a nice benefit for legends. But yeah, keep the fame thing too so our oppononet's can benefit as well.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2010-01-21 13:56:06
Has Peter disappeared yet again and left this 'half-change' in place permanently?

Post by: Scotland1983(398716)
2010-01-23 18:03:51
who knows peter has made great games though
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2010-02-02 10:16:47
Who knows?
Well, all of us certainly DON'T know :D

He gave you guys false hope. Good thing I had given up hope a long time, before he came back :)
Reply to Thread

Total Users: 609
Total Forums: 20
Total Threads: 2075
Total Posts: 21661
Logout