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Forum: VOW Development & Design
Thread: Idea for Chat Ban - take 2
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-11-08 09:34:55
Seeing as the original topic has gone off on a tangent, and some decent ideas were raised in the topic that may now go un-noticed, here's a summary of what was suggested/discussed.

If I've missed anything, or anybody has anything else to add, feel free to contribute :)

Original suggestion was that once a player loses their chat, then the game should automatically send a message to the player (maybe the next time they try to use their chat) explaining why their chat was banned and for how long.

Chat would be reinstated automatically at the end of the pre-determined time period.

Suggested alternatives to this were that the ban should not be reversed until the player banned has e-mailed the mods apologising for/explaining their actions, thus putting the responsibility of sorting out what they did wrong onto the guilty party.

This was then progressed so that the receipt of the e-mail in the Mod Centre would be the trigger to the original suggestion.

Other points raised were that it can be infuriating not knowing why you were banned - and the rules could be made more accessible.

Did I miss anything?
Post by: tbragu(97303)
2007-11-08 10:28:58
I think the rules should be put together in one place, and very concise. Furthermore they need to be numbered, so that if a person breaks a rule, they can simply be told that they broke rule number three, etc. It would negate the argument that a person didn't know what rule they broke as it would be stated. It would also get rid of the argument that the didn't know that it was in fact a rule, as they would be together and concise.
Post by: horne 86(108503)
2007-11-10 03:37:35
Mike, you're a good guy, bro, keep up the good work and bring me some of what you're cooking :D
Post by: Gravedigger(270785)
2007-11-14 04:14:31
You forgot to mention that this idea is NOT applicable for major offenses(i.e. swearing, insulting, etc.). Only for minor offenses it could be used.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-11-14 05:23:21
Thanks Gravedigger - forgot about that bit
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-11-14 19:12:44
if you just stay out of trouble it would fix lots of the problem.

Mike is right. O O i whish the rules where made easy by breaking them down in to genral speek not legaleass.

In the long run its the responsablaty for the player that has done wrong to speek with the main mods to get his chat back or his main account back if he has a full ban. The ownus is on him. The mod did not break the rule. His there to resolve it.

Tools for mods. I hope they come. its a time consuming thing. after resolveing a ban it would be nice to have a delay box that undoze the ban automaticly. it will come one day. Fore the time been its just emails etc etc.

Denzil
Post by: Gravedigger(270785)
2007-11-15 04:40:40
Oh, and I almost forgot... If someone makes too much minor offenses, then it'll count as one major offense (number of minor offenses TBD). This is a safety measure so no one can take advantage of this. I think that would be a compromise between this idea and current conduct policy.
Post by: horne 86(108503)
2007-11-15 15:51:12
A good idea Gravedigger, but a definitive set of rules might be best determined as well. What constitutes as a broken rule and such. A lot of it is common sense but if you notice a trend some players may walk the wire but "not break the rules" when in fact they are no more innocent than the people that get banned for misconduct because apparently they don't get called on it.

In order for this to work the rules would have to be concise as Mike suggested so that it would be clear what rule is broken and not open to interpretation.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-11-16 04:52:50
I can say for a fact when i was giving out banns to players there histry did take a large part in there ban. It depeneds if he was a repeat ofender of the same thing or got introble for difrent things and was truely sory. It realy does count. you must take responsablilaty for your own actions in this game. Then pay the time for the crime.

Things like multis take up massive time for the mods. When they could just clear up normal problems and get back to playing. Its a erk for all main mods. But its the job. you have to do it. friend or not ppl get banned. Its a simple sistom in place right now. There are set banns allready for each ofence. then it gets worse for repeat ofenders. So in the long run its not realy worth bashing your head against the mod wall. they just do there job and time goes on.

How do you see this thread helpping the main mods? its intresting for sure but i dont see how it helps realy.
Post by: horne 86(108503)
2007-11-16 14:06:21
People have been reported multiple times for various reasons, breaking rule after rule and you still see them on. Plus, say you get goaded by a moderator, it's not like the moderators are going to ban themselves, that's where the system is corrupt. Moderators are above the rest of the players and if the mods were to decide not to ban another player who goaded a player into breaking the rules it's not like we can force the enforcers to enforce the rules fairly. Although, moderators hide behind the fact of us not knowing who they are some of them make themselves pretty obvious but if we ever called them to account for breaking the rules we could get in trouble on basis of revealing the identity of a moderator.



I'm talking from firsthand experience of being goaded. Whereas I've been accused of goading a player before for saying "Apparently, we have some cowards here in SSWO *looks cocky*", which lead to a ban; there have been players who have made direct attacks/insults on me, I've reported them, and nothing happened to them. That's where the system is flawed. Not to "mod bash" because I'm pretty certain that there are some who do their jobs without any personal agendas but I'm talking from actual experience of being goaded and nothing being done about it whereas I've been banned for "my record" while the only reason I even have a record is because of my ridiculously ludicrous bans. I know I'm not the only person to experience this but I can only speak for myself.

I can already tell now that some will probably be offended over the "mod bashing" and I can almost tell who will respond but the thing is, take a football game, you want the referees to call the game straight down the middle, right? What if your team gets beaten because of a bad call? Will you not voice your opinion on it?

When the mods make bad calls I can understand they're only human but when they consistently make bad calls they should be held accountable for them. Come to think of it, my current ban occured a day or so after the "infraction" took place. I say a day or so because when I logged off late that night I had chat and I didn't use chat the next day but the day after I found out that I had a chat ban. How would you feel if not only did your football team lose due to a bad call but because of a bad call that the refs made to reverse the score of a game your team had won after the game was already over?
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-11-16 16:42:56
Carrying on from the football example though ...

A soccer player, who is known for having a short temper and who has a terrible disciplinary record, is subjected to a few hard tackles during the first half of a game, some niggling little fouls against him. None of these fouls warrant a red card as individual offenses.

Then the player on the receiving end of these minor offenses decides to take the law into his own hands and retaliates by punching the next player who he believes has fouled him, so recieves a straight red card and is, rightfully sent off for a major breach of the rules.

Should the referee have given this player some more protection by taking public action against the opposition players or did he have a quiet word with them in the changing room at half time? Probably.

Was the player on the recieving end justified in what he did? Definitely not - maybe understandable, but definitely not justified.

And does complaining to the national press about the state of the referees in the game help paint him in a better light to the same people who will be refereeing his next match?

I'm not saying that makes what the referees do justified when they next come into conflict with the player - but it could go some way to explaining their actions
Post by: horne 86(108503)
2007-11-17 02:33:22
Metaphorically speaking, I’m not exactly sure what football game you were watching but apparently you and I didn’t see the same game. Anyone who knows the player that you say is known for having a short temper and a terrible disciplinary record would see that he is actually one of the league’s top players and one of the game’s biggest contributors but a few players whom disliked him, for whatever reason, decided to blast him in public. He addressed it early on and was told something would be done about it. They decided to continue blasting him and nothing was done about it. As a result he became angry and retaliated and because of his retaliation, the hometown media of the players who blasted him used his retaliation against him over and over again to portray this player as someone with a short fuse, when in reality, he had endured weeks of harassment from these players on this opposing team and nothing was done about it. Anyone that is familiar with athletes, musicians, actresses, or any types of entertainers must realize that they’re not always how the media portrays them to be, it’s not the media’s job to inform but to entertain and sell their merchandise (usually magazines). So I must ask, do you see this “soccer player” thru the eyes of the referees or thru the eyes of the media?



Coincidentally, these players who had been bad mouthing this player were also close friends with some of the referees who were supposed to call their upcoming game and had spoken with these refs before the game to give them “tendencies to look for” in regards to this player. They even accused him of doing things that he had not done to paint this player in a bad light. Therefore, the refs had their minds made up about this player before the game even began and as a result singled him out during the game. When the game took place, these players who had bad mouthed this one player had been fouling him several times and the referees, who were close friends with the players who fouled him over and over, did not call the fouls and pretended to see no harm in what they were doing. Eventually this player became irritated and complained to the refs about what the players were doing and the referees told him they would do something about it. When they fouled him again the referees ignored this player’s complaints so the player started complaining to his teammates and coaches and started asking if they saw what was going on, many of them did and also complained to the referees but when this player decided to complain to the refs again he was threatened with a technical foul if he kept harassing the referees. Therefore, the next time these players decided to try and foul him again he decided to trip them in order to keep them from fouling him again and got tossed out of the game with a red card for something these players had been doing to him the entire game.



Was this player right to trip the players who had been fouling him? No, but what choices was he left with? The difference between the player and the refs and his friends is that at least this player had intentions to do what was right to begin with but for the refs and the players who badmouthed him their sole intention was to provoke him, vilify him, and to get him punished so that from then on he could have a record they could use against him anytime he decided to stick up for himself even though they were totally in the wrong to begin with. Maybe this won’t paint me in a better light with the “referees” but hey, maybe the “referees” are lousy painters as well.

Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2007-11-17 15:39:51
So why not walk away and be the bigger man! Is there a need for retaliation? Geez, the amount of cyber space wasted with post after post about being picked on, or being harshly treated. If you keep retaliating, people will continue to pick because they know they're getting the result. But if you keep your head down and get on with whatever you're supposed to be doing, and not bringing attention to yourself in any form, then those who are the cause or problem will fade away.

Just a shame some people don't know how to do that around here.
Post by: gruchul(66928)
2007-11-17 20:23:45
"a definitive set of rules might be best determined as well. What constitutes as a broken rule and such."
I agree with this completely.

Off topic: The referee and linesmen in Scotland's match today were awful. They completely ruined what could have been a great game.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-11-18 06:45:38
Scotland will be a world power in cricket in 10 years. As soon as there aloud to play in kilts. Not to sure where going to put there box? umm!
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2007-11-18 11:44:42
"a definitive set of rules might be best determined as well. What constitutes as a broken rule and such."

Now hold on, wasn't Will complaining the other day that the mods (who are displaying the rules), have masking on their profiles. Seems like someone wants to have their cake and eat it, and still come back for seconds.
Post by: tbragu(97303)
2007-11-18 11:47:48
This is getting as off topic as the last version of this thread. Can't we be civil and talk about possible upgrades or clarification of what a rule break is, and how to deal with it?
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-12-04 03:37:20
Hey this isnt prison reform or anything, the whole purpose is to stop certain behaviors in chat, I say give a fixed time 12 or 24 hours for offences, have a auto generated message sent to their in box, for people who dont learn from thier mistakes could make it longer after say 5 bans where every 5 bans the time the person is banned doubles. You could do away with the mods email and just let people do thier ban time.

It is my feeling that people know what they did to get banned they just want to cry to someone about it, OH THE INJUSTICE!
The rules are posted and it should be the players responsibility to go read them and adhere to them.
Yes it would be helpful to break the rules down to make them a no think for people, (If i do this I get banned etc...)
But then how many pages would we need to just post the rules, a little common sence goes along way.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-12-04 06:18:17
OH&S is just like rules. it is good we have them but it realy can be taken over the top. First rule is if your not sure ASK about it before doing it. All the monning and complaining is not going to change one thing. Yep Rules Are Rules and if you break them you do the time. There is no rebut to this. As players that have been banned before should know better. If there a repeat ofender! well its just tuff luck your not smart enough to figger out what your doing wrong. This is where thinking before reacting is smart. I dont have time for people that do this. As a old Main mod i have seen it all before. There is to many what if's etc. Just learn to take responsabliaty for your own actions. I do. If you do wrong addmit it and do your time and move on! you get more respect off me if you did this.

Denzil
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2007-12-09 07:56:46
I like the first on last suggestions on DMD's post.
Post by: MikeyHaahr(419085)
2010-01-30 05:14:46
Its wrestling! Let there be drama! We need heels to make it interesting!
Post by: bstone(426784)
2010-12-04 16:51:30
mikey H is right people should be allowed to swear and stuff like in real wrestlingg
Post by: Noobtacular(426791)
2011-03-09 05:04:43
Ha, now this is funny. Considering I've sent screenshots to the main mods around 4 times now of a player sending me sexually disgusting messages, and yet he still gets on here and plays. So either someone isn't doing THEIR job, or you guys just don't care anymore.

I wanna see Legend Killer defend this. Because if he would like to see what this "Kman" guy has said to me, I've got 2 messages in my inbox right now with some pretty nasty stuff on it.

If you want people to come to you and apologise and grovel and all that crap like this is is 1942 Germany, than you need to do your part too.
Post by: Craig(170136)
2011-08-15 17:22:05
Ok lets re-open this thread and lets see some mods come out the dark and talk, but hey we all know they don't

i get chat banned for messing about on my first day back and state any pwo/spwa or law fight me as a joke knowing at the time the only person online was a noob who must have started over a million time with a 52-0 record, (myself knowing he wouldn't accept anyway), i log off and rejoin 2 hours later to find my chat has been removed and 2 vwo matches have been sent my way which i accepted!!! so are we banning these people for trying to break the rules? knowing my man was weaker?

If this went to court it would be tossed out, the system and mods, you may want to take a look at your own posts and challenges recived before jumping on the boat to survival

and you wounder why this game has died its death, i was going to mess about for a few weeks on here and guess what i will not bother, take a look at why the game died and look in the mirror boys oh and girls!!!!
Post by: Craig(170136)
2011-08-15 17:25:58
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