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Forum: VOW Development & Design
Thread: Idea for chat ban
Post by: Gravedigger(270785)
2007-10-30 07:56:14
I don't know how good is this idea, since chat is a privilege... Many people got chat banned( including me, twice) and they had to mail to mods to get their chat privileges back. A complete waste of time.

So instead of others chasing those bad boys, I suggest a time limit chat ban. How it should work? When a person gets a ban, he's notified by the game when he tries to use chat again. His privileges will be back after a period of time. How long will a person stay banned, it's up to mods to determine. Here's a suggestion:

Minor offense: 12hrs
Minor offense multiple times: 12hrs * (total number of offenses)
Major offense: 24hrs
Major offense multiple times: 24hrs * (total number of offenses)

If a person continues making offenses, mods can terminate his account.

Although I played this game for two years, I'll leave sorting of offenses to veterans...
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-10-30 10:52:17
Or ....

don't break the rules + you won't lose chat in the first place :)
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2007-10-30 17:22:48
Prevention is cheaper than the cure.

Plus, if you're nice to the mods and offer them bribes, they might put you in the VIP Group and never ban your chat.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-10-30 18:23:58
Cooling off time.
Some times a player will get a chat ban. Why you ask. Because he needed it and it settles down chat so others don’t loos chat as well. This is normally arguing.

Small offence.
1 to 2 days.

1 to 2 days. If it’s a real light ban a few hours.

Major offense
1 week.

Major offense multiple times.
1 week base + 1 week per extra problem. Like disrespecting the mod with trash emails
This can turn into months if you don’t behave.

Full ban.
Well do I really have to say why

This is the basic rules I ran by when I was main modding.

I would agree it would be nice to get a auto undo ban tool. Don’t wory Peter has been asked lots of times if we can get it. I am sure it will be implemented one day. Comeing soon I surpose.
Post by: Gravedigger(270785)
2007-10-31 07:56:43
You made it even better denz, but auto ban undo tool... No, you lost my support there.

And DMD, you know I've broke some rules and didn't get banned, remember? Also you'll have more time for development this way. Try something creative for a change, hunting is boring. Unless you want to waste time chasing abusers (your choice, not mine)...
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-10-31 08:45:31
The only issue I see with this idea is that automating the whole process means that players can break the rules and then don't have to do anything themselves to get their chat back.

Some may ask what the problem with this is - my answer is that the current process requires the guilty parties to make some effort to send an e-mail to the Mods Account and, hopefully, apologise for their actions! (Or at least explain them)

Automating the banning process would take this element out of the equation - NO APOLOGY should mean chat privileges remain barred!!!!

And I also don't see how this process will save more time for development either - the Mods don't (or at least shouldn't) chase up the 'bad boys' and 'abusers' once they are banned anyway. Automating the process probably won't reduce the number of chat bans/full bans that take place as it won't do anything to deter people from breaking the rules
Post by: Gravedigger(270785)
2007-11-01 04:49:23
Like you need an apology or explanation for breaking rules...

Look, my idea is simple: person breaks the rules, person gets banned for it. After all, you don't make difference between minor aand major offenses. Swearing is worse than masking, but then again, when someone mask bad words, it means he's careful to players younger than 13 (14, 15... whatever is kids age). At least my idea can be supported fo minor offenses...
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-11-01 06:05:05
By your method, people will not have to contact the Mods to get their chat back, won't necessarily discover WHY they lost their chat in the first place and may not learn to curb their behaviour in the future.

The current method at least means that players (new ones in particular) get to discover what it was that they did wrong.

This may just be my simplistic view, but if somebody does something wrong, not only should the punishment be issued, but they should also apologise. It is only good manners.
Post by: mob(23502)
2007-11-01 10:43:31
The lack of information about being banned must be frustrating for some people... having to contact the mods to figure out what they did wrong and then wait for however long for a response and then reply with some sort of appeasement that's worthy of forgivness. ;-)

Perhaps an auto ban/unban paired with an in-game message outlinging ban rules and lengths would reduce a player's frustration and ease the workload (and abuse) of the mods.

Just my two cents!
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2007-11-01 13:57:22
The mods are not supposed to go into details about your bans anyway. So if you are told you're banned for "masking", then that should be enough surely.

"Like you need an apology or explanation for breaking rules..."

That made me laugh. Hmmmm maybe it should be put to the mods that no apology = no chat.
Post by: Gravedigger(270785)
2007-11-02 05:40:17
Is there any idea that can be considered? If not, then I'll stop thinking about them...
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-11-02 06:06:54
I'm sure all ideas are considered - but some are more valid than others. All ideas are subject to interpretation + debate, so if you do come up with an idea, you should expect to get differing points of view on the matter
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-11-03 09:40:49
just so you know. there two types of mod. a chat mod. all he does is ban ppl when needed. to clean up chat etc.

Main mod. He does all the tuff stuff. spending hours looking for multis etc. reaplying to emails and inforceing bans. Useing the filter to0.

To run GW. SC.SFP AD and VOW too. Now if there was a banning tool he could set as the main mod to give chat back when its due it would be awesome. less work. This way the player would not have to remind sed mod about his un ban.

of cours there is lots of tools we all would love. they are slowly turning in in the mod senter i bet. Last time i spoke to the main mods there fairly happy. since they can do forum bans as well now. it keeps the thuggry off the forum too.

Post by: Gravedigger(270785)
2007-11-05 04:55:16
So far my ideas had negative reception, DMD, hence the question...
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-11-05 06:25:40
I've posted a few ideas myself and there are always going to be people who disagree with them.

An auto-unban tool, used to set the date/time when chat/accounts are un-banned would probably take a lot of pressure off the Main Mods and make sure that players are re-instated when they were told they were going to be.

But, I wouldn't want to see the whole process automated for the reasons mentioned previously on here. Automate the un-banning process certainly - but this process should only be activated once the banned player has contacted the mods.
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2007-11-06 13:15:48
would be nice if it could be automated though, if it could be done in a way that the offender had to send an email in, and that would activate like a timer or something. Their email would set the "timer" so to speak for how long the offender lost their chat, giving it back automatically when the time was up. Would definately solve the problem of waiting weeks and months just to find out how long one lost their chat to begin with. Then having to remind the mods to give it back when they say you are due to get it back.

Post by: horne 86(108503)
2007-11-06 15:54:36
If players would treat other players how they wanted those players to treat them that would fix the problem. People ask for an apology but they should not ask for something they're unwilling to do themselves. There should be no exception to the rules. Also, you should never provoke the lash of wit and complain that you smart from it.
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2007-11-06 16:11:18
People should always treat others the way they wish to be treated, would cut down on a lot of strife in life in general. If one person expects an apology for something, then they should be willing to give an apology in return for whatever the wrong was they did.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-11-07 06:15:50
For once, I actually agree with Will - if people treated others as they wish to be treated themselves, the world would be a much better place.

Shame that people don't do that really
Post by: horne 86(108503)
2007-11-07 17:34:14
Truth remains truth whether you agree with it or not, it's not so much about who's right as it is about what's right.

Also, you can't say "don't break the rules" and in the same instance break them yourself, that's like trying to remove a blind fold from someone else's eyes without removing the blind fold around your own eyes first. How can we see clearly enough to correct another's fault without correcting our own first?

By provoking one to react in an abusive manner you share the crime as well, whether you get banned for it or not, you will own up to it one day (and probably end up worse off than had you owned up). When you're a moderator and provoke a player to retaliate against you to push the issue or you see a friend of yours' provoking another player to retaliate then by not doing anything to stop it, you support that behaviour as well and share the crime.

I know I've broken rules before, not going into detail, but at least I'm honest about having broken the rules as it is much better to own up to breaking the rules than to lie about the fact or pretend not to see it when you or a friend of yours' does break rules or provokes another in an underhanded manner to goad them into breaking the rules, because in the end, we don't really get away with wrongdoing, it comes back to us in one form or another. Some call it karma and don't think because it's done online that it doesn't come back to us.
Post by: horne 86(108503)
2007-11-07 17:45:20
Learning about oneself can be painful. The Gruesome Truth is the truth hurts and once the truth hits you, nothing else matters.

Sorry, I know that has nothing to do with the topic but I had to plug that in, just love that move and the quote. "The Gruesome Truth" has won a lot of matches for me :D and once it hits it usually doesn't matter what happens afterwards, that's how devastating it is. Unless the generator decides otherwise but can a random generator really deny The Gruesome Truth? (H)

(not to divert attention away from the topic)
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-11-07 20:09:07
The meaning of all of this is not to be hostile (to use a phrase on one of your own wrestler profiles Will) but ...

As I said earlier on this topic, if you post an idea, point of view or express an opinion on any given subject on an open forum or chat area, then you should expect that some people will have differing opinions and they are just as entitled to state them as you are.

Disagreeing with views raised/opinions expressed is not always done to provoke an abusive reaction from whoever made the original post. And even if that is the intention, an abusive reaction is still not justified. (And speaking personally, though I doubt you'll believe me, that has never been my intention where you are concerned. 90% of what you go on about I couldn't care less about, 10% I feel I have the right to respond to)

Debates are good, when different viewpoints are made + discussed rationally that is. The problem with debates in VOW chat/forums are that some people resort to personal attacks or petty insults when their views are disagreed with - especially when they are under the delusion that the person disagreeing with them is doing so purely out of spite, malice, jealousy or whatever other concocted reason they come up with at the time.

Disagree with somebody's stance on a topic by all means, but leave the personal jibes and digs out of it.

Yes, I've done some things to get under your skin in the past, but it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other with us. I react too hastily to some things - but I've offered an olive branch of sorts numerous times, changed the 'Will inspired' Special Move names on Valk after our last failed attempt at ignoring each other etc - but it doesn't seem to do any good does it?

You want to keep having a go, be my guest, but for somebody who likes to use pretentious quotes to make your points or use passages from your religious user manual in a feeble attempt to justify your actions, I'll leave you with this: Go look up John 8:2-11
Post by: horne 86(108503)
2007-11-08 04:02:17
Now, is this a general post or one directed at anyone in particular?

Of course people are entitled to state their opinions as much as anyone else, the problem is with people who feel that their opinions are the only worthy opinions and that the opinions of others are less valuable than their own.

If you don’t care about 90% of what I say, why do you respond 95% of the time, in a patronizing manner and mention my quotes and such? Out of curiousity, do you copy and paste my text and show it to people too? Sure, “some people” resort to personal attacks or petty insults. Say what you mean instead of saying “some people”, you mean, Will resorts to personal attacks or petty insults when his views are disagreed with, which is a load of boloney. When I do make attacks it isn’t because someone’s views are different from mine but because of their perceived open attacks on me. You act as if what you say is of more value because you’re the one saying it.

Your comment:

“For once, I actually agree with Will”

Saying “keep the personal jibes and digs out of it” and while posting to personally attack someone, is totally contradicting. There aren’t any personal attacks until you choose to make it personal. How is saying the quotes I use are pretentious not an attack on my character aka a personal attack? My quotes aren’t pretentious if they come from the heart, and no man, especially not you, can judge my heart. What is pretentious, is saying how you really feel about someone behind their back to your friends and smiling at that person that you put down and making friends with them, for your own personal gain, behind the back of the other people you trash them out to.

I don’t see why you feel that everything I say is directed towards you, then again, you can describe a person or thing without naming them. You want to use that passage from the bible, yet, you want to condemn others for disobeying rules that you don’t even uphold yourself. Maybe when we get banned we should use that instead of having to apologize because metaphorically speaking, to condemn is to cast a stone and how often do you put your labels on me?

Two wrongs doesn’t make a right but it’s hard to take the high road 100% of the time when you’ve got people harassing and putting you down on an online game where you can’t be face to face with the person but not ever be dealt with. I don’t respond to the attacks 100% of the time, it’s just that they occur so frequently and when I do respond I usually get a ban. When attacks from players aren’t dealt with then nothing deters them from harassing you and by harassing players you promote bad behavior. Don’t be dishonest, if I did the majority of what you and your buds have done in the past I’d be banned for it because of my “record”. Some players will never have a record because they’ll get 8 or 9 warnings and never get banned.

So quick to say, “if you don’t break the rules you won’t lose chat”, and condemn us as trouble makers for losing chat, but if we conducted ourselves identically to you we’d be banned and you and your friends wouldn’t because “the law is on your side” so to speak. Lying about it makes you worse, especially when you know you're lying.

Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-11-08 05:50:01
Just who is in this mystical 'Star Chamber' of my friends who get away with breaking the rules on VOW and who, apparantly, team up to victimise these poor unfortunate people like yourself Will?

What are these lies I tell people to their faces and who are the people I stab in the back?

What are the chances that when I respond to one of your posts in chat or on the forum, you will react by attacking me - not my viewpoint? Fairly high I'd say, but does that mean I shouldn't respond at all or that you shouldn't react the way you do?

I don't think everything you say is directed at me, yet your posts always take a negative turn as soon as me (and/or one of my alleged co-conspirators) joins a debate - coincidence?

I'm not going to stop posting my own opinions on subjects raised in chat (in my admittedley sarcastic way) just because somebody else involved in the conversation may get upset because I'm disagreeing with them - that is their problem, not mine.
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2007-11-08 10:18:28
When Will first started playing VOW and he found out about rping, he did a lot of rping and some at the time took it personal. They made their complaints, and their own attacks for the purpose of provoking, so they could complain again and Will would get banned. Now Will is not totally innocent by any means, but he freely admits that. I think some of the problem is, well, you put a dog in a kennel. Then go out there everyday and poke at it til it snaps at you, pretty soon the dog is snapping at just the sight of you. While a dog is an animal, Humans tend to be the same way. People treat you a certain way long enough, then you tend to automatically expect that kind of treatment from them on sight. This isn't directed at any one person in particular, a lot of the ones that took Will's rping personal I don't think are even playing any more. But it's funny how once a role is established, you keep getting put back in it whether you want to be there or not. Maybe what everyone needs to remember is, along with an open mind, that the role a person is playing isn't necesarily the real person. I mean let's face it, some of the comments I have seen in chat if I didn't know the person I would have been sending some very vocal emails to the mods because of the sexist implications. But while I know the person to at times be of a sarcastic nature and allowing for bad experiences I have said nothing about the comments. Heck, I have been known to make some not real nice implications myself, although I try not too, it is just too tempting sometimes, but again, they allow for my nature and experiences. Sometimes people need to take a step back and look at the WHOLE picture and put themselves in the other person's shoes before reacting. Not easy I know, but it might be worth the effort.
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