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Forum: VOW Development & Design
Thread: Lets make it easyer on laws
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-08-30 04:53:45
For laws only!

Lets just give them max stats .
Then give them 1500 Ap+100$.
In the R&R link have a tick box to Heal stats automaticly as well.
They can only have docs level 2 with no extra staff and it is on level 2 as a defalt so its on allready.
When they hit spwa they can use staff.

Been able to set what set of stats you want healed would be nice. I know if i was a P.G i would not waist my money and ap on the air stat.

Any thoughts?
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-08-30 05:10:27
I like the sentiment, but how easy do you want make it for LAWS?

There's already a lot of help available to those new players willing to get off their backsides and look for it. (Wiki Based Manual, Ecternal VOW Manual, Tips on player profiles, guides on the Forum)

There are lots of 'veteran' players willing to help if new LAW's ask for the help in a polite manner.

Having to build your stats at the start is part of the learning curve in my opinion and sets them up for further along the line.

And as for an automatic setting of Docs 2 only throughout LAW - what about the Legends who have learnt the game the 'hard' way already and can go into some LAW matches with Docs 1 or no Docs at all to earn extra cash?

Like I said Denzil - I like the sentiment, but I don't agree with any of these ideas :)
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-08-30 10:27:32
A big flatout "NO". If the LAWs are too lazy to read the manuals and forum etc., the hell with them. The game is already too easy for them.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-08-30 11:32:38
Ok its a flat no right now but the game is changing as well we all know. If you set it up so stats are healled for laws in R&R it would help. i know i would leave the tick box on my self so i dont have to stuff about fixing my own stats. This is a good tool. Add a tick box next to the stats to be auto healed might be handy too for the vets.

If you take away the stat dmg problem for laws and players this will make the game faster. Yes your still paying the ap + $ to heal but its automatic.

They still need to hit the R&R link to heal.

This would be a task a law does not need to learn. He can just play the game. This game is changeing as is so i dont see the problem with adding this in. for a start i hate having to make a char. its a time wasting effet. Yes it teaches you how to fix your stats and heal but if its on auto! See my point! its a muet point.

I did not say stop vets from running 0 docs i just said no extra staff. This will stop fights for a start. if you like you can even undo staff for legends if ya like. you dont get staff in tounys so i dont see the problem. Tell me how many vets go full staff in normal matchs in law?. am sure my end its ZERO 0!

This game is a few things. its a imcome to keep the game running paying for survers etc. So if its easyer for laws to stay alive this means more bums on seats playing the game which means more donaters. Yep i agree the game is getting lots easyer because of this but! V.O.W needs more players. in the old days there was no healing of docs. your stats started on 0 all the way threw. So saying i have no idea am sure i do. i am just tossing thoughts out there. am not trying to kill vow just seeing what ppl think. remmber i to have views that are simlare but i also look at what the game needs too. to difrent views.

Whats this NO kish. you dont like new players in the game? WOW. When i started i use to see you about and you had a little bit more exp then me. i watched and learned off you by reading your matchs. I did the same with lots of vets. This is a very tuff thing i am asking. i know when i first started i lost 2 chars threw lack of stat healing and full staff. Then i donated and explored the game further becuse i enjoyed it. most bad laws are dead after 9 matchs and might win 2 to 3 matchs if there lucky too. if we can keep them in game longer i am sure they will learn. if not well what do you do? let them go or let them have fun in the game.
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-08-30 12:30:43
I didn't say I don't like new players. I just don't like new players who are too lazy to do anything by themselves.

When I started I had no idea about the game at first. Until I read the VOW External Manual and browsed the forums. And then later on learned some more by trial and error.

And the game was a little harder then than it is now.. How more easier do we want to make the game for LAWs?
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-08-31 00:25:43
I agree it was tuff. These where the days of Alfa and Beta testing. not to many moves and no docs at all and all stats started on 0. you had to fight to get better stats. then the coutch came along to heal. Then R&R so whats wrong with just modding the game further. just so you can set stats to be auto healled. I am for it.

I am not to woryed if laws do or dont get max stats but most games have a defalt char. if you add the healing box to the laws it will do it automaticly. i think laws will get more fun out of plaaying the game this way. its a pain in the but healing. So in a way the auto healing will keep them on max. This is not to hard to learn in game. I mean if you dont heal you die. some of us found out the hard way. There still going to learn about healing ap and what are good matchs to take + move sets and the move tree now. there will be lots of new stuff to learn. Just because we all did it tuff and figgered it out does this mean Peter should loos players for beeing realy Bad newbs? lol some of them deserv to die lol. But looking at it from the other side as all vets know you max stats first\con. to get wins in lms to heal more stats. So the vets will loos out on this tactic now. its a game.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-08-31 04:52:28
The auto-heal function is a useful tool I think for all leagues - but as for letting every LAW start with Max Stats and limitations on the staff they can use - well, I don't agree with that at all.

Let them learn how to develop their wrestler like everybody else has had to.

To be brutally blunt about this (and not having a dig at EVERY new player who signs up) if they are too dumb and/or lazy to follow simple advice and learn about improving stats, staff settings etc. on a game after a day or two of playing - then do we really need them anyway?

Face it - if they can't work out the simple basics of the game, then they're extemely unlikely to be able to work out how to donate either!
Post by: Thor(146261)
2007-08-31 19:31:47
You say that it would be a task a LAW wouldn't have to learn, but once they hit SPWA, they would have to be able to figure out how to fix stats, do R & R, etc. I agree with John and Antti. The rest of us had to learn by trial and error, why the hell should we giftwrap max stats and a free ride to LAWs?

You talk about it creating new donators and such...the majority of new players do nothing but create problems, detach, create multi accounts, spam the chat, and contribute zero financially to the game.

I stand by the Darwinian theory of evolution: survival of the fittest. If a noob is too stupid to READ, then that is their own fault.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-08-31 21:47:05
I stand by the Darwinian theory of evolution: survival of the fittest. If a noob is too stupid to READ, then that is their own fault.

i like it too. I have even seen some of the Darwin awards. to kids fill up long flooro tubs with petral. then light it up. to make light sabers. Yes they died! its a little difrent to life. Yes this is a game. easy come come easy go.

ok lets look at things one by one. not as a full package. Toss in some of your ideas too lads please feel free to add to the post with good ideas . its easy to kill something off with negativaty.

1. R&R of healing stats and been able to heal sertan stats by selecting them. for all players.

now this would help the newbs. US too because its a one butten click to heal fully. If you want to not use it turn it off and play old school. it will keep newbs alive too.

2. Give newbs 75% of max just like they have don a full heal with no trainners on.

This gets rid of the problem of explaing why tranners should be on or off. its not tuff i know but it will save them asking us dum ass questions in chat. I had a frend explain this to me when i first started. i had no idea. Yes it takes a little of the game away from them i know but they will not die and have a better gameing exprance in game if there char does well and not die after 7 fights. The new R&R wll keep them going.

3.Laws can only have docs level 0 to 2 with no extra staff.

it will stop fights about staffing. it will keep them alive. it will make the game easyer to play. Some want to leave it and some what change. What do you do? Looks like the game is changing any way. so i am going to play along and see what happens. this is all my views by the way. not Plit. if there is any other good thoughts that could be added toss them in and lets hash over them too. okys. feel free. To add ideas okys.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2007-09-04 00:20:11
While I see your point Denz, I'm not sure how I feel about it. Because for one I don't understand what's so hard to figure out about VOW? I did like you and studied other peoples' matches like Brian Allan's Jaysen Chambers, Armenian Beast, etc before buying moves. I also got advice from guys like Bubba Gump, Hick Bob, and Brian Allan. They were very kind in giving me advice and they never steered me wrong, like some veterans do to new players today. I think that's a big part of the problem... What we must understand is that the LAWs need to grow otherwise we have nobody to fight in these higher leagues. Look at VWO and SSWO... They are in horrible condition. So, maybe your idea would be good. But I have a suggestion...

How about not letting LAWs fight matches until after they're forced to read the wiki? Or how about making them raise their own stats before they can fight another match, and making them heal their R&R themself before the next match? Once they hit SPWA the game can tell them that since they've learned how to do those things that from now on they will have to do it themselves. Make LAW into VOW's training camp of sorts. Don't make it so they can be lazy, make it so they can't be lazy! That's my answer to the problem. Because the problem must be solved right because if it isn't then you have the LAWs get to SPWA and then they just die there instead of in LAW. So, SPWA becomes the new LAW.

The last thing I want to add is that if I were a new player, I would not know what a "Wiki" manual is. It should be called "VOW Manual," or "VOW Instructions," something a little more easy for the common man to understand lol.

Post by: Shoottothrill86(176802)
2007-09-04 00:50:54
Here's a thought:

I think all we really need to do is help with the basics. The basics arn't that hard to figure out if you just take a look around, I had them figured out in no more than five minutes when I first came here. For some reason there are people that won't do it. So, how about making it where when a new account is made, they are run through just the basics. Make it one of those things where they have to check a box or fill in a blank before they can continue.

As I see it, the bare basics are gym, r&r, staff, staying within experience, and picking a spec. You could have something like - "Go to r&r after every match to heal both consciousness and vital life. Your consciousness determines how much damage you take in a match, and if your vital life reaches zero your charecter will die. If you understand this, type "heal" in the box to the right."

Just do that for each of the basics. Other things can be learned as they go along. It's not something that would have to come up for each charcter, and it wouldn't have to be put in for retiring players starting over again in LAW, just new accounts. This stops short of holding a new players hand and setting things up for them, but gives them a better idea of what to do once they actually start.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-09-04 04:54:26
You mean a bit like the 'Tips for Noobs' on my profiles? :P
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-09-04 10:20:40
Staffing is cool and underrated.

"How about not letting LAWs fight matches until after they're forced to read the wiki? Or how about making them raise their own stats before they can fight another match, and making them heal their R&R themself before the next match? Once they hit SPWA the game can tell them that since they've learned how to do those things that from now on they will have to do it themselves."

That is just silly. The game isn't rocket science and is very easy, if you put some thought into it.
Post by: Shoottothrill86(176802)
2007-09-04 11:58:52
"You mean a bit like the 'Tips for Noobs' on my profiles? :P"

Pretty much, yeah. If something like what is being discussed here is implemented, that's the only feasible thing I can think of doing. I don't know how you can force someone to read the wiki manual before they have a match and make sure they do it. I'm not much on the automatic settings or any of that, though giving a little more ap to start might not be bad, just 200 or so.

This would run them through the basics and it wouldn't take long for them to read. They could even throw in the chat rules and there would be no more "I didn't know" excuses.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2007-09-04 17:25:39
Two simple methods:

1) Welcome message automatically generated to each new wrestler. The message contains the Wiki link and a few helpful hints.

2) Over each link in the game, add a short description in the "alt" HTML coding. For example, Gym could have the alt coding of "Increase stats here".

Then, if people are still struggling... not our problem.
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2007-09-05 03:37:52
Hmm, Legend Killer's solution seems simple and effective! I like it, but I'll add something to it...

Have a quiz that players take after reading the wiki, and if they get the right answers they get a small ap bonus. This would encourage learning. It would be multiple choice and have like 10 questions. Basic questions like "How often should you heal your R&R, etc?" If they get wrong answers something would come up and tell them what the correct answers were, or it could tell them to go read the wiki again.
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