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Forum: VOW General
Thread: Victims of our own Success?
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2008-06-10 10:45:45
Here we go again ...

Seen a couple of complaints recently about 'the state of VOW' and the 'lack of matches' especially in the higher leagues so here's my two cents worth on current VOW ...

I rarely find it difficult to get competitive matches - but then again, the only restrictions I tend to put on matches is XP-related and will usually fight any Match type (AP/Tourneys/e-fed commitments permitting)

A lot of the people struggling to get matches appear to have very strict match criteria, 'No Singles' being the main one. While I can understand the fact that some people build wrestlers with non-single matches in mind, this can and does limit the options in the higher leagues - especially if you add into the fact that some of these people are multi-time Legends with decent Legend Bonuses that can have a major impact on the damage they cause to their opponents.

With the lack of new talent progressing through the ranks, with the upper Leagues full of people who know what they're doing and who know the reputations of the legends (so will probably be unwilling to fight non-single fighting, multi-time Legends) - why limit your own options by a) setting such strict criteria + b) building a 'one dimensional' wrestler in the first place?

Given the fact that fewer people are donating (allegedley) so people have less AP to throw around (and spend on healing injuries) it is hardly surprising that non-single fights are hard to come by really.

So, how do we get the upper leagues more competitive? How do we attract more donators?

Seeing as at any given time, at least 90% of LAW is either 'noobs' (for want of a better term) or those wrestlers bashing/taking advantage of the 'noobs' - it is hardly surprising that only a tiny percentage of people progress into SPWA + beyond.

The inexperienced players are getting murdered in LAW, and getting very little structured assistance - a lot of the bashers are getting to SPWA then realising life becomes more difficult so detach + start bashing again in LAW with a new character and the circle continues.

I'm a big fan of the newest development (Move Dependencies) being planned - but this is just papering over the cracks really when there are more fundamental changes needed to secure VOW's future ... and attracting, and more importantly KEEPING, new players is the only way to do this.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2008-06-10 18:14:14
Too many people want the opponents to come to them rather than going out and getting their own matches. It is one thing that vets preach to the new players in the chat, but to say that there is nobody willing to fight is nothing short of laughable.

I agree with DMD, too many people who complain about no having matches are the ones who have the strictest restrictions. There is a player list, so why not mass challenge people. Oh sorry, I forgot, one decline means that NOBODY will fight you.

I'm trying to have Joe fight as close to 5exp/win in SPWA as he can. There is rarely SPWA on when I am, so I use the player list. Yes, I get the odd decline, but I get mostly accepts.
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2008-06-10 19:01:11
people need to re-think the qualifications of who they fight.
most people are looking for a massive advantage. usually an exp. advantage.
try going the other way. especially in singles.
fight people with more exp. than you have. most will accept unless you are drum roll please, Mad Max. no only kidding most will accept.
I find it easier to beat some of the more exp. players than people at my level. and it's not just because I am a legend. I find the same thing true with my alts.
I am not talking double or triple your exp. but say 10% higher.
play around with it. do a test run and see how far above your exp you can fight and win a good amount of matches. sure you will run into someone you just cant seem to beat but you will find there are alot that you can beat. they dont always have to have less exp.
Post by: Captain Stupendous(38517)
2008-06-11 01:48:52
I think the situation has less to do with behavior and more to do with substance.

Back when I first started playing VOW nearly 4 years ago, bashing was commonplace rather than restricted and chat was much, much rowdier and livelier. The community was arguably richer and had many eager and consistent donators. If we remove players' behavior from the equation, what has changed?

The answer is "very little"... and therein lies the crux of the matter.

There are thousands of free online games out there and even more non-gaming diversions available for people on the internet. VOW, as a leisurely pursuit, must compete with countless other activities for people's free time. To do so, it must not only provide compelling content (which it does) but it must also grow and evolve to both attract new players and to keep the old players interested.

You can only eat the same meal for so long, no matter how tasty, before you start to crave something different.

VOW is stagnant, and the player base is suffering because of it. I'm with DMD - Move Dependencies are but a small bandage covering a large, festering wound.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2008-06-11 09:43:57
I know nothing about coding/changing the layouts of a site like this, but just how much time/effort/money would it take to make a few changes to help protect the player base.

As has been suggested/discussed (ignored???) time + again - the rules + player guide need to be PLAINLY visible as soon as people log into the game (especially for the first time) and should be a mandatory read before players are allowed to have their first match on VOW.

New players are treated as cannon fodder by the vast majority in LAW. I'm not saying make them completely bullet-proof, but unless they know the basics before they start playing (and know not to act like complete idiots in chat) - then those abusing the current noob-bashing rules will continue to deter these players from sticking around.

Another issue mentioned time + again is how few players manage to progress (and stick around) in the higher leagues. Why not offer 'Promotion' bonuses of a few hundred (a thousand?) AP when players move up a league as an incentive? And as a disincentive, have a waiting period for players who detach before they can create a new wrestler? Only half a day or so - but would make players think twice.

(I know the downside of this is possibly more multi-accounters, but if they've read the mandatory rules as suggested above, then they have no cause to complain when they get caught + suspended!)

Now to what I'd like to see as game enhancements/changes ...

There has been no major changes in the match engine since I've been on VOW (changing the move descriptions in fights isn't a real major change) so isn't it about time changes to the match types were made? From a personal point of view, the one-on-one matches are fine as they are and I don't think we need any more additions, but it is way past time the Tag Team matches were improved.

Add Tag Team Title tournaments for a start. One for each current League above LAW - highest partner XP deciding which league they compete in. (So an SPWA/PWO combo would have to be in the PWO Tag Tourney etc)

An Elimination style tag team match option - so the match continues until ALL members of the team have been eliminated, not just the first one.

And (a personal bugbear of mine) ban all one-on-one tag team matches!!! Now that multiple matches can be raised using the ordinary match types, the ONLY REASON for people continuing to do these matches is for the increased payout they provide over single matches. (Yes, I know they cost 50AP and you get paid the same as for a 40XP Table Match, so the argument is it 'costs' you more to do them - but it is a loophole in tags that you could drive a double-decker bus through!!) Plus the fact that it is potentially harder to spot those people who are farming/jobbing to friends using these matches. Purely my personal opinion - and I know the views are split across VOW on this point :)

Will anything come of this? Does Peter even take any notice of VOW/Plit Games any more? Who knows - but I don't think we should just sit back and accept the current malaise without at least trying to suggest improvements
Post by: Captain Stupendous(38517)
2008-06-12 05:09:13
Something I've just noticed recently is that there are several new donators running about. They're just silent, for the most part.

Chat certainly was livelier in the old days. However, I'm admittedly less chatty than I was in the past, myself.
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2008-06-12 05:21:26
maaaan, is everyobody making this long messages?
it hurt my little fly-eyes to read it all...

so i won't ;)
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2008-06-12 15:06:27
tl;dr
Post by: Tee eeN Eee(295379)
2008-06-12 19:03:38
The people who moan about not getting matches are usually either a) as you guys said wanting style specific matches or b) impatient and can not be bothered to wait.

Personally, I have been in positon b myself, but the truth is there are always matches out there as long as your reasonable and willing to wait.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2008-06-12 20:54:05
well my self i dont get alot of matchs. This does not wory me much too. my ap gets held in a ap bank and i have maisive ap to spend when i spot a bud in game. so since i take all matchs be it single or lms i dont realy care. and my rule of thumb is 10% more exp then me is fine. but i see vwo asking for matchs that are 10% more of there exp. lol you have to be kidding! its vwo! fight all takers. thats the idea. when you hit about 6000 exp your at your peek and rule. allso you will have allmost 154 moves so it proves move sets dont realy mater when your at the end realy.

now lets do some mith busttig. cages are 50 ap. rumbles are 50 ap. try both matchs and see what match type pays more. sory to tell you its the cage now. Peter ajusted this ages ago when i was modding. to boot if you have mass ap it does not mater what match type you fight your fame will go threw the roof! this causeing mass pay outs. now back to rumbles i think the match type is now set so you cant get a free pin \ sub win till you do at least 50% dmg. so try it for 20 matches and then go look at the numbers and get back to me.

any way its all good! hi all!

time for some coffie
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2008-06-13 03:38:02
my head hurts from seeing all these long texts...
why are you guys doing that to me!!!

and i didn't even read them yet...
Post by: insane clown(11577)
2008-06-15 09:46:14
i have 75k ap to use and with my talent as the best ever legend i will be up the top again soon and you know me i accept all fights :)

KOVOW
Post by: yar(35506)
2008-06-15 09:56:51
the best ever legend? rofl. Now that is funny.
Post by: insane clown(11577)
2008-06-15 10:52:10
bah dont deny it we know its all true, people feared me and people still do
Post by: yar(35506)
2008-06-15 10:56:28
Ya you were great and still are:)
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2008-06-15 15:11:05
and we all fear clowns :D
i have more AP then you do, haha :P
Post by: insane clown(11577)
2008-06-15 19:01:29
hmmm well i have 75k ap with 3 characters :p
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2008-06-16 04:23:40
Well alright then, that can count :D

SuEpAhFlY: 99.767ap
Deadly Force: 100.552ap (finally reached 100k today :D)
wim: 57.768ap :)

Anyone can beat that?
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2008-06-16 20:32:06
i didn't think so! :D
Post by: BubbaG(33460)
2008-06-17 13:11:23
Check my guys. I stopped donating so I can only logon to one of them. Bubba Gump, Leigh Steinberg and What is my Name
Post by: insane clown(11577)
2008-06-17 13:26:53
Bubba has 137287
Leigh has 229305
What is my name has 154627

So you have the most by a mile
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2008-06-17 17:47:58
Don't non-donators have a limit of 500ap anymore? :S
Post by: Impacter(343349)
2008-06-17 18:48:20
The limits still there. But we can vote past it
Post by: legendary wolf(38655)
2008-06-17 20:03:38
what's this all about again?
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2008-06-18 05:09:36
i don't have a clue...
something about me missing Ray and Tess, i guess...
Post by: the down under(370115)
2008-06-18 07:57:28
dyna mike i challenge you to a match here in australia
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