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Forum: VOW General
Thread: Just a few things I'd like to see introduced...
Post by: Prince Of VOW(270242)
2007-09-01 09:53:51
A quick list -

- More moderators to get close to having atleest 1 moderator on all the time.
- LAW's banned from chat. TWG players keep coming online and disrupting the chat and whenever someone trys to make them not look so big they get chat banned themselves. Ban LAW's from chat!
- A link to the PLITM Code page on the game page aswell/instead as/of it being on the main account page. It's a pain in the back to have to log out to check the codes.
- A fully operational IP banning system to get rid of these idiots from TWG permanently. Also if needed a Proxy ban.
- A re-shuffle of what warrants a chat ban. Give warnings for minor things but obviously ban people who blatently mask swearing and swear. This way it's fair because it gives people the option to ignore a moderator or accept an intstruction from a moderator.

I know a few people who will agree with the last one...
Post by: damowozeya(283842)
2007-09-01 10:13:43
I agree with you about the banning LAWs from chat but that also means that the people who have just retired will also be banned...It should be just for newly registered people until they are about 1 month into the game
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2007-09-01 10:14:25
actually not allowing law's to post on chat until spwa is a great idea.
why?
they will have time to learn proper chat etiquette by observing what is allowed in chat.
it would get rid of the people that come on to chat just to disrupt the game when they get suspended or want to advertise another game.
or just want to throw a tantrum by sending vulgar words in chat. they would have to devote the time to get to spwa first. of course it wouldn't have to be spwa. you could set the exp. to be gained to activate chat at 200 exp. or even 150 exp.

IP banning though wont happen. why? because very few people actually have a static IP address. so if you ban an IP you could really be banning more than one person.
Post by: Prince Of VOW(270242)
2007-09-01 10:18:47
Agreed with you on the chat Jim, but I still think a solid IP ban would be good because of the pains we get from TWG.

It wouldn't have to be introduced if moderators were on more often and banned them when they came on.

See, all my ideas link together perfectly :o)
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2007-09-01 10:20:41
Post by: Shoottothrill86(176802)
2007-09-01 13:59:02
I think they are all good ideas and have had the same thoughts myself, particularly the code link.

I do think more mods is easier said than done. More mods can cause as many problems as it solves, not to mention the key is finding good mods. You don't want to stick some trigger happy idiot in there and a lot of people that would be good don't have the time or the patience.

Taking chat from new players would solve a lot of problems, but I think it should be limited. A month is WAY to long. Maybe not allowing chat for the first 50 experience would be good. It would deter a lot of the trolls that come in for the soul purpose of dropping f bombs or advertising efeds. Someone getting chat banned wouldn't be so apt to create another account and come back in just to cause trouble if they have to work back through 50 exp. Which reminds me...

If it's possible to keep two wrestlers from fighting each other because they have been played on the same computer, how hard would it be to prevent two accounts from being created on the same computer? I realize there could be certain circumstances where no rule is being broken, but maybe put a time limit on that too. If you've created an account in the last thirty days, it prevents you from creating another.
Post by: Prince Of VOW(270242)
2007-09-01 15:54:14
Sounds good to me.

The main point I want to bring up is a re-shuffle on what warrants a chat ban, because I think some things are quite ridiculous if i'm being honest.

Feedback from current/ex moderators on this and all topics brought up would be nice.

This brings another topic up, when are moderators actually online? Because at the moment, it's a rarety.
Post by: Bill Goldberg(133021)
2007-09-01 18:32:39
The moderators are silent and have been more or less since I started playing, with the exception of a few people who decided not to be silent. This proved and supported why Plit Games has silent mods. So since they are silent, they are probably online more often than you know.
Post by: Prince Of VOW(270242)
2007-09-02 08:15:51
1. I don't agree with them being silent, people should be given warnings for minor things that border a chat ban.
2. If they are online more often than I am, why do i continuosly, and i mean daily, sometimes hourly, see noob characters spamming chat, mainly from TWG?
3. If they are online more often than I am, why do people, yes people, not just me, have to wait several days, sometimes several weeks, for a reply via email regarding a chat ban or a main ban?
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2007-09-02 11:07:30
"I don't agree with them being silent, people should be given warnings for minor things that border a chat ban."

Making the mods known can lead to a LOT of problems. If you know who the mods are, the second you catch one online, you can stop breaking the rules and get away with whatever you just did. Second, if Chat Mod X is online, and you suddenly get chat banned, you can easily point the finger at who banned you. Also, with named game mods, what's stopping you from going down the published route of having complaints dealt with?

Plus, the game has run under zero tollerance for a long time.


"A link to the PLITM Code page on the game page aswell/instead as/of it being on the main account page. It's a pain in the back to have to log out to check the codes."

Good idea. Although I think there is something in the manual as well.


"A fully operational IP banning system to get rid of these idiots from TWG permanently. Also if needed a Proxy ban."

Easier said than done.


"If they are online more often than I am, why do i continuosly, and i mean daily, sometimes hourly, see noob characters spamming chat, mainly from TWG?"

Mods have a life as well. Some mods will play from work, some will play from home. Plus, from previous experience, I know that chat bans aren't instant. You have to copy and paste the chat in questions... blah blah blah.


"If they are online more often than I am, why do people, yes people, not just me, have to wait several days, sometimes several weeks, for a reply via email regarding a chat ban or a main ban?"

Repeat previous answer. Plus, do these people add their details to the e-mails? You complain that mods have to deal with the chat, but then you want them to chase around asking people for details which are needed to deal with suspensions.


Is it me, or is this just a shameless attempt at trying to get a mod spot by complaining about the system in place? If people didn't break the rules and gain the ability to read rules, then this wouldn't be a massive problem. I remember times when there were less than half a dozen chat mods, but because people need to break the rules, the need for experienced players to take the role of moderator has increased.


"Ban LAW's from chat!"

Why not introduce a test which a player needs to get correct in order to use the chat? Get a pool of 100 questions, and players must correctly answer 10 selected at random. Then when people get chat banned or account banned, there is none of this "I didn't read the rules" malarky. In fact, give this a little more incentive by offering an AP bonus for completing it!


"This brings another topic up, when are moderators actually online? Because at the moment, it's a rarety."

So I take it you know who every single game and chat moderator is? I've been here for 3 and a half years and I don't know who all the mods are. Some pathetic children have "revealed" the mods identities from time to time, but it's funny when this happens.


- Nuff said! Let's see the backlash against these logical and experienced views.
Post by: detroit maniac(233270)
2007-09-02 11:33:42
Well, to be honest, I only see one of those ideas that could fix a whole lot of things. I like the chat not working for LAWs til they get a certain exp or take a little quiz. I would rather have them get exp though because a banned player who played for a month will know the rules and answer correctly, then get on chat and piss off the world. Whereas a banned player who would have to take the time to get 50 exp would probably not bother.

Don't know if that made sense, but it's my view on the topic.

Oh By the way, Click open the manual and the Plit M Code is there, and a warning for a chat ban would be nice. But you should know common language. My second grade teacher once told me, "If you wouldn't say it in front of your mother, than don't say it at all," or something along those lines.
Post by: Prince Of VOW(270242)
2007-09-02 12:24:01
To start with -

"" Making the mods known can lead to a LOT of problems. If you know who the mods are, the second you catch one online, you can stop breaking the rules and get away with whatever you just did. Second, if Chat Mod X is online, and you suddenly get chat banned, you can easily point the finger at who banned you. Also, with named game mods, what's stopping you from going down the published route of having complaints dealt with? ""

"" Plus, the game has run under zero tollerance for a long time. ""

Whats wrong with someone seeing a moderator online and suddenly stopping? Do you WANT to ban everyone? It would make life alot more peaceful for players if people stopped what they were doing whatever the reason. And besides, i don't agree with the zero tollerance thing and I cannot be bothered going into it.


Secondly -

"A link to the PLITM Code page on the game page aswell/instead as/of it being on the main account page. It's a pain in the back to have to log out to check the codes."

"" Good idea. Although I think there is something in the manual as well. ""


I'd forgotten about that, but the Wiki Based Manual is usually down and the flash version is pants.


Thirdly -


"A fully operational IP banning system to get rid of these idiots from TWG permanently. Also if needed a Proxy ban."

"" Easier said than done. ""


Easier said than done my back end!

Get Peter to add this into a .htaccess file and put it in the VOW subdirectory -

{limit get}
order deny,allow
deny from 000.00.000.000
{/limit}

(obviously change the {} to proper html tags, it wont let me post the thread with html tags involved)

and obviously change the IP address.


Fourthly -


"If they are online more often than I am, why do i continuosly, and i mean daily, sometimes hourly, see noob characters spamming chat, mainly from TWG?"

"" Mods have a life as well. Some mods will play from work, some will play from home. Plus, from previous experience, I know that chat bans aren't instant. You have to copy and paste the chat in questions... blah blah blah. ""


Agreed and acknowledged. Mods do have a life. So does every, well most, players. Which is why more moderators are needed to MODERATE the game properly. And from my previous experience also, I have had chat bans instantly aswell as delayed.


Fifthly -

"If they are online more often than I am, why do people, yes people, not just me, have to wait several days, sometimes several weeks, for a reply via email regarding a chat ban or a main ban?"

"" Repeat previous answer. Plus, do these people add their details to the e-mails? You complain that mods have to deal with the chat, but then you want them to chase around asking people for details which are needed to deal with suspensions. ""

All the details about the chat ban should be in that persons log. And I always add my account details into the email and low and behold, 3 days from having my chat banned I have still had no reply. Another reason for more mods.


Lost Count Now -

"" Is it me, or is this just a shameless attempt at trying to get a mod spot by complaining about the system in place? If people didn't break the rules and gain the ability to read rules, then this wouldn't be a massive problem. I remember times when there were less than half a dozen chat mods, but because people need to break the rules, the need for experienced players to take the role of moderator has increased. ""

People don't need to break the rules, people get increasingly annoyed at stupid people who join the game to advertise other games or sites or just come on to abuse and insult people. If there were more moderators online then they would be able to ban their chats to stop them disrupting the game. An alternative would be to either get rid of the chat all together or to ban LAW's from chat. Otherwise, get more moderators in. And it's not a shameless attempt at anything, I don't like the way the game is moderated. "Nuff Said"


Not even going to comment, my previous comment says it all, Ban LAW's! -

"Ban LAW's from chat!"

Why not introduce a test which a player needs to get correct in order to use the chat? Get a pool of 100 questions, and players must correctly answer 10 selected at random. Then when people get chat banned or account banned, there is none of this "I didn't read the rules" malarky. In fact, give this a little more incentive by offering an AP bonus for completing it!


Lastly - (Hopefully)

"This brings another topic up, when are moderators actually online? Because at the moment, it's a rarety."

"" So I take it you know who every single game and chat moderator is? I've been here for 3 and a half years and I don't know who all the mods are. Some pathetic children have "revealed" the mods identities from time to time, but it's funny when this happens. ""

No i don't know all the mods. If they were on more than I think that they are, why arent these idiots who come on with the sole purpose of disrupting others and abusing others getting banned? Sure they are getting banned at some point, but only after they have annoyed and wound up everyone online! And even then the idiots come back online with a new account and start again because of 2 reasons -

1) they have no life
2) they can, which is why an IP banning system needs to be in place.


Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-02 13:15:11
Reasons. I.P bands are awesome. The big problem is banning I.P ,eg. 111111. Then the player logs off. This IP will go to a new person and if he happens to try to log into V.O.W he will be blocked. Then the same player comes back later on and logs in again he might have an IP of 22222. So unless the account gets a full ban it does not mater what the mod does. Toss in a Proxy or onion router as well you have real problems.

Laws with no chat. Ok. 200 exp makes me happy. Make Legends immune to it.

Silent Mods.
Mods come and go with time. There silent for a reason and PETER is the one that makes the choice on this. Not any of us in here! Its very simple Zero tolerance and one place to go speak to the mod to repare the dmg the player has done be it multi chat or bad behavior in chat etc. As you all know you need to send in the data to fix this. I donít have to repeat the rules or forum post you need to look at to fix this do I? Some times its tuff to get good mods from difrent time zones to cover the hole of the 24 hour spectrum.

Plit Code
Its on the wicky.

Two accounts on the same P.C
Itís a tool to stop multis. I know lots of familys that play on the same pc. Yes they can not fight each other. This is just par for the course. Its a safty valve for stopping cheets and Farming accounts. A way cool idea you mentchened was a time limit for a new account on the same P.C. I would send this idea off to Peter if I was you. Lol you might even get free ap! Lol . Or at least make 30 silent mods very Happy and thank you in a silent handshake lol.

V.O.W testing.
Awesome. If you do this and get a ban you have read the rules so the term I did not know or understand will not cut it in the mod center. I do belive the rules should be revamped and placed on the log in page for all to see and even with the test when you first start and a link to the rules in game would be good too. as soon as you click I agree and I understand the rules there is no come back from this at all. I do agree misunderstandings can happen and this is why there is a main mod. For all the twisty little rules we get. Some players in here are true lawyers I think.

Denzil
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2007-09-02 14:18:06
Player banned from chat makes post about the moderating of the game.... figures.
Post by: Dyna Mike Duncan(127082)
2007-09-02 16:59:08
My thoughts on Silent Mods v Known Mods:

Having Silent Mods doesn't seem to have improved chat behaviour (in my opinion) from the time when the Mods were known - if anything it is worse. (I may be wrong, but this is just my perception of it)

Would players behaving themselves if they know a Mod is online be such a bad idea? I agree that if EVERY Mod was known, then some idiotic players would take advantage of the fact when none of the Mods are online - but is that any different to the situation we have now?

Having Silent Mods has the appearance of serving to protect the Mods from abuse from other players rather than for any other reason - I'm not saying I agree with this perception, but it is how players see it.

Giving warnings vs Zero Tolerance:

Some offences deserve immediate chat bans, others may require a gentle warning first. With silent mods, it should fall upon ALL the veteran players (mods included) to provide the warnings where necessary. Some players do this already I know. It is NOT THE FAULT OF THE MODS if players don't heed these warnings and it is NOT THE FAULT OF THE MODS if players don't know or follow the rules!

Yes, there are times when no mods are online, and I'm not sure throwing more bodies at the problem is the solution. It all depends on where the mods live, what their social/work responsibilities are, when they can get online etc.

Apart from either paying the mods to ensure at least one of them is online 24/7 or locking chat when a Mod can't be active, the problems with rule-abusers for short periods is something we will all probably have to live with.

Personally - I think that for the majority of the time, the mods do a good job under sometimes difficult conditions. As I've said before, improvements could be made, especially around communication, but players need to remember that when they get upset/annoyed about aspects of the game or bans etc. that the Mods are players too. If you get annoyed and 'attack' the Mods, don't be surprised if they get annoyed back
Post by: Prince Of VOW(270242)
2007-09-02 17:52:01
LK, I've thought all of this for a long time, and I decided to post after I had chat banned for a ridiculous reason(in my opinion)

DMD, I agree with most of the things you've said.

I think warnings should be introduced, but hey, nothing wrong with a debate is there?

And the moderators know as well as anyone who knows how to use chat does, there is a filter on the chat so players wont get away with things when mods are offline. So therefore, these idiots will get caught anyways. So why can't mods be known by everyone so that when a mod comes on, people stop pratting around on chat and follow the rules?

Makes sense to me anyway...
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-02 21:49:18
First problem a ban will be given by a mod .

Step 2. player apeals to second mod to get this fixed.

Step 3. 1st mod feels like his ban has been over ruled with out his even been contacted.

Step 4. Mod fight and you end up with one mod at the end. Due to The mod leaving.

Step. 5 all mods get sacked because of the inturnal fights.



this is because of mods in chat. This is why there silent and there is a Zero tolrance Rule made by PETER. Not the mods. They just do his bidding. There are lots of things that are nice. Its real life and rules are rules. Some players think rules are dum but there in place to stop anackly.

So make do with what we have and go report to the mod center if your banned. This is the only out come that can fix any problem in game. No point moneing about it in here.

Warnings.
Well since mods are silent its up to players to inform the misbehaving person. you have a key bord just type in that its not aloud and why. let them know the rule and where to go see it if they dont belive you. If your a vet and break the rule . Well i should not say nothing about this apart from you should know better in the first place.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-03 06:34:10
whish list that the mods are realy hot blonds and like me! Dam shame there silent.

ow well.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-04 07:11:03
Hi guys. Good thinking Dave.

I donít think Peter will do this but no harm in asking him. What do you think?

Yep a small interactive instruction on how to max stats and heal would be a good start before they even have a match. A prelude to what they need in game. The player is given some basic instructions then when he does it successfully he can move onto the next step.
I found Peters instructions tuff to understand and how there was 2 ways of maxing stats as well is confusing. This needs improvement. If some one could write up a short but concise well spelt stat increase I think Peter might do a cut and paste to improve it. Donít know but hey no harm in asking.


The first is setting his stats up. When done correctly he can move onto setting up his spec move.

Then setting staff.
Set it on docís level 2 on default. At least this will help the player that has not even set staff.
Or force him in to staff before any match to set his staff... if he sets Full staff have a box com up warning him about he will make no money etc. so when he trys to heal he will not be able.

Today I spent 3 hours setting up 3 laws in chat with my James Bond 007 char. I donít see enough of this from vets. Some times I see vets playing jokes on newbie. Come on this is not on.
Post by: bla ulv(108040)
2007-09-04 10:18:42
in regards to mods, maybe more isn't the answer, but maybe when is. At this point the head mod puts people up for being a mod and no surprise, the most of them are likely to be friends, Granted, Peter has the last say on who is or isn't a mod. Maybe in order to adequately cover chat, we need to look at times that the mods are able to be on. I know this makes finding good mods even harder, but if say someone says well I'm usually online from this time to this time, then see if they are willing to be a mod for a portion of the time that they are logged in and playing. Have shifts, then it can be covered more adequately at least those are my thoughts on it, and POV is not the only one to post on this problem, I have tried to bring this to attention several times only to be accused of mod bashing which is not what I wish to do. I would like to find a way for the mods and players to communicate and resolve the communication issue. I haven't posted on this to get a mod position or because of a chat ban, but apparently the mods don't want to consider any alternatives, or they would take some of the suggestions that are good and discuss them with Peter. But then with running shifts, you are probably also looking at some of the mods maybe having to retire from being a mod and I'm sure they don't wish to lose their position either. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh, if I am, then I apologise.
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-09-04 10:31:05
What is the problem of players using all the staff? It's a game option and there to be used! If you get "staffed", don't fight the same player again. Plain and simple. Forcing everyone to use doctors level 2 is lame and pathetic..
Post by: Me(316143)
2007-09-04 12:30:23
If noob bashing is against the rules because of how it depromotes the game then staffing is along the same line. It isn't really breaking any rules but it is a discourtesy all the same. And in matches declared docs only it is (except in accidental cases) something of an unfair advantage.

If you want to use full staff decline the docs only match and don't fight that person. A lot of people defend the staffers when in the end it is their choice weather they staff or not.

If we had away of seeing a players active staff as we challenge them then it would do alot towards eliminating this problem.

$0.02
Post by: Prince Of VOW(270242)
2007-09-04 16:19:11
Staffing isn't a problem at all. I staff noobs all the time when they are foolish enough to challenge an SSWO. I also staff in tourneys.

People always staff and get staffed in LAW, wait till you move up a league..
Post by: Me(316143)
2007-09-04 18:43:44
I have moved up. And I still got staffed a few times. I give the benefit of the doubt that it was an accident, so to prevent accidents it would be useful to to see the other players active staff.

I also figured it would help the newer players out in a way that didn't dumb the game down any.

While we're on the subject: it sucks to have the spwa curse and get staffed at the same time! :|

And as a foot note, I'm not new to VOW I'm just returning from a hiatus.
Post by: Prince Of VOW(270242)
2007-09-05 07:26:32
spwa curse?
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-05 07:45:19
would be nice to see what staff the other person is running. would stop lots of fights and complains.

Mods .
well you find them here and there. its easy enough to do but its hard with a trust factor and age cap as well for leagel reasons. So spending time in game and staying out of trouble is a good way for mods to get chosen. I would love to See Kish as a mod but i dont know his histry and i dont know if he would have time. all i know is i put in place a formate that the main mods all vote on one person and if there is one no vote he dont make the cut. so its not one mod with all the say. its a groop of main mods that make the choice and ask peter after they have voted.. I to would like to see more mods but i have no idea on how many there are on. may be there should be a mod counter of the mods to know if others are on. chat mods are just players by the way that deal with problems as they turn up in game. remmber its unpayed so we get what we pay for.

good idea by the way on staff too. where do you set the staff meater to let players know? to make it usefull i mean.
Denzil.
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-09-05 10:22:10
"If noob bashing is against the rules because of how it depromotes the game then staffing is along the same line."

Don't be silly. Noob bashing and staffing are two totally different things. They don't have ANYTHING in common.

"It isn't really breaking any rules but it is a discourtesy all the same. And in matches declared docs only it is (except in accidental cases) something of an unfair advantage."

Hah. Just hah.

"If you want to use full staff decline the docs only match and don't fight that person. A lot of people defend the staffers when in the end it is their choice weather they staff or not."

And where does it say that you have to decline a docs only match if you're going to use "full staff"? YOU are just stating the staff that YOU are using. Please show me the part from the rules etc. where staffing is forbidden. I'm dying to know.

"If we had away of seeing a players active staff as we challenge them then it would do alot towards eliminating this problem."

What problem? Staff is a part of the game. Get over it.
Post by: Me(316143)
2007-09-05 15:26:37
1. I meant that it deters new players from continuing to play. Like noob bashing.

2. That's how I see it, I never called it a rule.

3. Show me where I called it a rule. I called it rude.

4. Part of the game, yes. I don't want it removed. I never said I wanted it removed. I just suggested a way to prevent staffing.

You can continue to use your full staff if you choose, I am in no way trying to prevent you from doing so. I'm just trying to figure out a way to make the gaming experience a more pleasant one.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-06 05:04:26
I like full staff how else do i get to kill NO Mercy lol.

been able to see what level staff is set on would help so you can make up your own mind. i think laws should have docs level 2 set on as defalt. when they get around to stuffing up there own char they can run any staff they like. then 10 matchs later make a new char again.

So what happens when Peter sets a limit on how many chars you can have in a day before been able to remake a new one after say 3 days?

?????
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-09-06 13:03:42
Meh, being rude will get you somewhere.

"been able to see what level staff is set on would help so you can make up your own mind. i think laws should have docs level 2 set on as defalt."

Or... leave it as it is and let them learn it by THEMSELVES through TRIAL AND ERROR. The best way to learn.
Post by: Prince Of VOW(270242)
2007-09-06 13:21:50
Or... leave it as it is and let them learn it by THEMSELVES through TRIAL AND ERROR. The best way to learn.


Thats the way everyone I know in-game has learnt, before the Wiki and no bugger uses the damn thing anyway.

It should be on the nav menu as READ THIS NOOBS or something like that.

Some 10-13 year old isn't going to know what a Wiki based manual is are they...
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-06 22:00:48
ok then . simple vow is perfict and dont change it one bit then by the sounds of this. then complain later that it never gets any better.

I think players forget what a good learning exprance is. Stuffed if i know by what is said in here. 3 steps forward and 5 backwards.
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-09-07 05:39:48
I've never said that VOW is perfect (it's boring) and nothing should be changed (which won't happen anyways -.-). If there is a good suggestion or a suggestion that would make the game more interesting/fun, I'm all for it. But making the game even MORE easier is just "blargh".
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-07 11:08:44
its boring? NA what game are you on?. There has been lots of changes. Mainly ones you dont like but ow well thats the way it goes. I was not keen on ageing. its here. i like LMS its here. I like docs not the coutch its here. I like not been main mod now. I like the new report link where it is. I dont like the prices on rumbles. i dont like the mesage for the tag matchs going. I do like mass matchs. I dont like no extra staff in the tounys. I like the new moves specs that are comeing. I like silent mods now. not sure on vow 3 yet till i get fire fox working. would like to see multi chat chanalles for difrent ages. some is comeing some things have gone but i adapted. some dont like change. well the world is like this. its full of change.
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-09-07 12:55:02
Yes, VOW is boring.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-09 04:20:03
wow. some people. make there money and dont know how to spend it on things like specs. lol Kish. Get some hot gf in game. or try cross dressing. can be fun.
Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-09-09 16:28:06
Been there done that.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-09-11 00:12:26
To true to think of it. nice Red pumps by the way. i liked the Tutoo as well. the rose in the orange hat was a bit much. There not in season. I thought some fruit like cheeries or oranges would look nicer.
Post by: slangi(11441)
2007-09-19 21:04:36
but denz that was a comfy couch!
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