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Forum: VOW General
Thread: idea to fix the current probs with exp and whatnot (peter plz read)
Post by: Bubba Steel(37644)
2006-03-01 09:42:27
Myself and several other vow players have debated this point and have come up with an idea that we like and that you peter will hopefully implement. firstly once a player hits 10k exp then a stat cap goes into effect and their stats can no longer gain. secondly we suggest a max amount of special moves, possibly 10 or 20. we suggest that there be no cap on exp or fame, so that those people who wish to retire can, but those like myself who have worked long and hard to get where they are today won't have to. another idea that has been brought up is creating one more league for people who have hit the stat barrier at 10k+ exp. some members like this part of the idea and some don't. but overall the consensus supports the stat cap and specials cap. i really hope that you take this idea into consideration.
Post by: Loincloth Legend(122263)
2006-03-01 09:45:17
I for one am in agreement. It stops the dominance of the odd individual and still offers the targets for the rest.

Also maybe another move set for those who have bought them all to unlock as another incentive.

Dont know how feasible this is though....
Post by: yadlow2005(86957)
2006-03-01 09:55:27
I know this isn't what you want to hear or read, but, people are OVERREACTING. Just play the game and see how well it goes. It may seem more balance than some like, but, balance is what we need.
Post by: yar(35506)
2006-03-01 09:57:35
Well i disagree in part, I feel they are good idea's i would rather see a cap on everything at 8000 exp, at which time people can either retire or continue to play their character, and since all their stats and attributes will be locked it would be fair for everyone that reached that level.
Post by: Necrorage(141899)
2006-03-01 09:58:34
I think the way things are VOW is getting too stupid and what peter did is taking the fun out of many good players that are affraid to fight because they dont want to retire.

ps: im mr necro
Post by: Deadman Inc(93629)
2006-03-01 09:59:20
I would have to agree seeing

Brian Allan, RVD420 and Jaysen Chambers (just to name a few) built there characters up for nothing aand forced into retirement they dont want to do, sure BA was much of a force to be reckoned with but in this new process we lost Jaysen Chambers for good, another VOW face not to grace VOW. I mean I've really lost interest in donating for right now! Implement it atleast until 8000 exp.
Post by: Bubba Steel(37644)
2006-03-01 09:59:23
no yadlow it isn't overeacting. if you have worked for 2 years to get to where you need to be, then you wouldn't like it one bit either. this is just a way to make things better for the veteran players. and who are you anyway. you can't even post on the forum with your own vow name.
Post by: horne 86(108503)
2006-03-01 10:02:30
I know this may seem pointless to some but I would at least like to think that our legends would stack up evenly with hick bob and great legends of the past.

This limit is needed but I also think that there should be a max for con and vital life, str, tech, sub, and aer stats. I mean think about it. When you become a legend will you always want to be in the shadow of the legends before you? If I become a legend I just want to be as good as the legends of the past and not a second rate legend.

Is there a way to enforce the changes without making the our legends weaker than the current legends?
Post by: Loincloth Legend(122263)
2006-03-01 10:04:18
Yadlow does have a point in a way bubba. Though im not a fan of this particular change it IS going in the right direction.

We cant have people streaking away like BA and having 7896498745 finishers too so we do need a way of managing that

Retiring should be optional but the people that dont shouldnt be able to run away with the game and become untouchable again

Finding the perfect way is the problem, hence the post lol
Post by: lazy(27024)
2006-03-01 11:55:05
.....Well BA will reach a point where all his moves are specialized and than the guys who have retired will catch up and he'll no longer be the most dominant player.....
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-03-01 12:36:13
What you are missing is the fact that with the age cap and stat deterioration formula, you wont see people with a large number of specials. You'll barely have time to get all the moves, let alone setup a slew of specs.

Bubba Steel : I am very disappointed at your lack of respect for others. As you have the right to post your opinions, so too does everyone else. Spence made his feelings known on your proposal as a gentlemen, with respect and a good tone. I expect you to do the same.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2006-03-01 17:03:14
As some experienced VOW players know, once something is made out to be broken and then "fixed", it stays as it is.

As I predicted, there is starting to be a mass exodus of players from VWO (a pointless league created for the whiners of this game) and now it seems as if we also have people (like Jaysen) who are leaving the game for good. Despite people saying that these changes are for the good of the game, I ask you, where is the good?

Vow is now in an age of decline: the appeal goes after a certain point, and the older players are being picked off one by one.

To the people who claim there are 20173897394 finishers: there are only 154 moves to specialise, and think about it... all you need is to counter a few of these bigger finishers and you can win easily. BA was never invincible as most claim he was, he didn't kill people in one move, and as we all know, VOW is a game of chance.

I thank all the whining and moaning people who have ruined VOW and have forced the better players to restart over with a change that wasn't needed. A stats cap would have been good enough, and if stats were to decline, they should never drop as low as what some people are expecting them to be.
Post by: Coneman(325)
2006-03-01 17:32:39
Quote from LK:
To the people who claim there are 20173897394 finishers: there are only 154 moves to specialise, and think about it... all you need is to counter a few of these bigger finishers and you can win easily.

In reference to finishers, it's all worked on your opponents conciousness is it not? Let's say someone did specialize every single move(god knows how long that'd take), but would their character not suck balls then? Since there'd be a huge chance to counter their moves?

Then again I know nothing about VOW :D
Post by: Bret Hart(73101)
2006-03-01 17:38:02
I completely agree with The Legend Killer. The game is being made "better" for newer players in which most will not stick around, and the loyals are being screwed. I retired exactly when I bought all my moves which was at: 6719 experience. But that is also factoring in a 58.something win % and 7 specials. The shame is that this post will not even be seen by Peter most likely. Numerous players made their point about the legend bonus being changed, and quite frankly it's like having no bonus at all... Especially for a trad like me. I think all these changes are a joke, except for the new league... BUT the new league did kill some of the tournaments out for right now, especially the trad tournament. AGAIN, trads get it the worse with all these changes. That's just my opinion.

Benoit
Post by: Beezlebub(105734)
2006-03-01 19:52:33
Qoute..
Vow is now in an age of decline:Disagree

The numbers show the opposite..

SSWO:89 active..A high percentage of these will carry on at least to buying all moves..

PWO:158 active..again you could expect a reasonably high percentage would carry on..

SPWA:264..cough.. Active..:P

The legions of LAW:No point even posting numbers here..There are a lot of helpful people in the Chat..Mainly current SSWO and PWO who help those that can be helped..although it would be nice if the Manual was a link ingame..

the appeal goes after a certain point:Agree

How could it be otherwise?..you've brought all the moves,nothing left but buying Specs..Isnt it better to have those Older Qoute *Better* players circulating regularly thus imparting their hard won experience among the masses..ensuring the game retained good percentages passing LAW and enjoying what is a top FREE Text based browser game..I dont think the Game owes us..We owe it..

and the older players are being picked off one by one:Disagree

People have jumped..none were *Picked Off*..Again whats the point of sitting aloof from everyone and not putting back into the game? Struggle to get matches?... No shortage in LAW SPWA PWO SSWO and Low VWO..The games about DEVELOPING a wrestler.. move buying strategies..interacting..hell *Matches* even...

Legend Status devalued:DISAGREE

How?..you've brought all the moves!! Thats the only criteria for retirement..so you buy all the moves..and play until your 10k speccing as many as you can..how does that make you any better than someone who has only one spec and 5500 exp..no difference is there..154 moves cuts the gravy...nothing else...

Just my thoughts..no offense intended

Dracula
Post by: Beezlebub(105734)
2006-03-01 20:10:01
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-03-01 20:43:35
Well Hi all. I have seen some good friends of mine go back to law lately. Not only that I have seen some more leave vow. It is a sad day for that to happen.

Now to the game as is. Yes the has been some changers. Yes some good some bad. If Peter was trying to set a point in the game where it was useless to play the game if you gave to hoots about your stats and what will happen to your char well what next!

Ok Peter has made his goal. I believe that in a way the oldies of vow have been done a raw deal but it is a free game and it is for all to play. So I move n and shut my mouth and stop complaining about it. I see it as Vow 3 now in my books. A new chapter in vow. The old legends are gone and never to be again. It is all history and fond old memoryís of time well past. The numbers say the the game is going forward. So guess what guys. So should we move on? Some ppl have done it. Like Jason has voted with his feet. I will miss him but we are still here to play. This is apart of life. Every thing gets older even me. So I look forward to all the new challenges to come to me soon. I might not like them all just like every one else but at least I can be herd in the forums.

My choice for the game would be an exp cap or a stat cap. 8000 exp will do.
Next is to set how many specs you may buy. I see this as mute because the ageing thingy will force you from the game any way before you even try to get 20+ specs. So what to do there? Any ideas. I hear the word retire!
I use to love the +3 to legends and I think is well mist too.
These are my thoughts on game right now. Thanks all for listing to me.


Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-03-01 21:19:27
I like the changes and agree with beelzebub on everything he said.

And I dont feel "picked off" in any way, despite being one of the oldest players left
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-03-01 21:38:44
I agree with what Cody (Drac) and Denzil are saying. The game is progressing nicely and yet we have lost some veterans recently because of the changes. But, its not a bad thing guys...the game is renewing itself once more. Its not the first time that this has happened, and yet the game has survived to see its playerbase grow. Any changes as dramatic as what we've experienced this year take time to see the "full" results.

The person with the most to lose from all this is Brian Allan, hands down. And how has he responded so far : Retired, when he said that he never would. His positive presence and influence is still felt in the chat channel, instead of seclusion. HE DIDN'T QUIT and HE'S NOT MOANING ABOUT IT. Hes a true fighter and we should all respect and try to be more like him. He doesnt make negative comments in the Forum, blasting bad charma and shouting "the end days for VOW are near".

I do agree that the age cap should be raised to at least 7200. Non donators will feel the struggle mostly if its not raised...and non donators make up the majority of the playerbase.
Post by: Fangblast(13923)
2006-03-01 21:49:46
The older players were ruining the game for the younger ones who had no chance of catch up people like Brian Allan. Brian stuck around to be the best, fair enough but when was it going to end? its not worth thinking about.
If an older player still enjoys the game he can start over and if heís good enough he can get to the top again. This is because the game has now been made fair so people canít hang around at the top hogging all the glory. So what if a few players leave, you canít please everyone. Vow is a great game and wonít die out as long as we keep getting updates to improve it. Maybe make it higher exp until stats decline to stop the moaning apart from that I say the current changes are great.
To hell with Bubba Steels idea for the stats capping thing, how incredibly boring would it be with 50 players all at the top with the same amount of moves, 20 specials and the maxed stats, the game is random enough as it is.
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-03-01 22:03:58
I think it is possible for everyone to retire around the 6000exp mark. So if the stat loss kicks in at that point, it shouldnt be that big a problem for people who want to retire
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2006-03-01 22:46:02
and yes, I agree with FB 100%
Post by: BubbaG(33460)
2006-03-02 00:43:51
I agree totally with Fangblast's points. The changes were implemented to help break up the status quo which was causing VOW to stagnate. Now that the aging has been put into effect it will help the game out. I do agree that the level should be raised slightly to 6500-7000.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-03-02 06:02:21
Well, well, well...it seems that the hatemongers who are bent on polluting the chat and forums with talk of "all the good old timers" disagreeing with the changes and will cause VOW to bleed to death by quitting....isnt exactly a true analogy of the current status in VOW. Hmmm...

Its good to see people like BubbaG(33460), Kueller(13231)
, Fangblast(13923), and denzil(82151)...all vets of the game...stepping up to basically say, " Its not as bad as its being made out to be". Have patience, and yes, learn more about how to play the game instead of how fast you can get to SSWO, only to complain about something new.

Seriously, If you are unhappy with Peter and the direction that VOW is going...then why not go find something else to do? If you feel that Peter isnt going to listen to your ideas and is hell bent on serving the left wing...then why not go find something else to do?The legends and veterans that have already left because of indifference, did so without moaning for months on end, singing the same old songs, "VOW is dieing", "The game is going down the toilet, because Peter is running off all my friends, oops I mean the vets of the game".

For the record, most of my suggestions over the past months havent been implimented either...but you dont see me calling Peter out and trashing his reputation with insults and mischievious associations.

BOTTOM LINE : We all have our own way of looking at things, on how to do things, and ultimately its PETER's game. You either like it...or lump it, lol. If BA and BG can deal with it...if BA and BG can persevere...then anyone in the game can do the same...for NOONE lost more than they did.

Oh Peter, lol, what are the chances that we could convince you too re-evaluate the fighting styles again? I mean, unless you got 50k ap to assign to your trad, it has gotten alot harder to play that type now.
Post by: Bruiser Brody(121422)
2006-03-02 06:06:15
oops, hit that terrible "refresh" button again in forums.
Post by: Bubba Steel(37644)
2006-03-02 08:10:51
things aren't good the way they are either. the aging factor is going to really hurt the nondonators who have worked rally hard. i know as things are right now, my player will never be able to retire. i'll die from the aging before i'm ever able to get all the move. there are other donators who are going to catch the same thing. its not right that donators will be able to make it out of this just because they line peter's pocket.
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-03-02 11:04:11
Steel you're wrong to an extreme this time. 10k exp for stat cap and aging is bizarelyl way too high and doesn't do squat to resolve the problem. 2 years of hard work? Whoopdee doo see the words OPEN-ENDED GAME. Which means nobody sits on top the torch will always be passed on there is no "Hi-Score". As said earlier go play othe rgames if you want that nonsense. TO respond to others I have lost just as much as BA and BG but I'm not complaining either. The only complaints I;ve had are about complainers themselves. And the idiocy. I detached because of the attitude and the spoiled presence I feel in the chat. From people that ar eleeching the benefits of a free game and trying to bury it into the ground by defying everything with nasty attitudes. That is where it hit home with me the most. Its a game for all to enjoy...absolutely NOTHING should be handed to you on a platter. Yes I lost everything because donaters don't have any insurance like they should. Wheres the chance to get all your hard work back when you show undying support for 2 years if you made a choice based off of circumstances like nasty attitudes? I'd prefer insurance if anything for standing behind peter for so long. But again I won't hate him or complain I started over. I did mention earlier that the stat cap implementation would be just fine at 6000 or a little higher and as observed. Others have mentioned it and agreed with it. I retired at a little over 6k exp and that was because I was goofing off and having fun with all moves for a bit. Even with 7 specials its possible to retire by 6k exp if you play your cards right and plan. So this is better for the balance. However I have to work really hard again to get back everything I will never get back. Glory? A place on the top? Marks in history? BA and BG didnt lose any of that work and can go right back to the top. They have the right attitude and spirit. And so do I. So I'll simply say this quit your fussing and bickering everylast one of you. You're behaving like spoiled brats, and you wonder why we haven't had any changes sooner for almost a year? Who would want to with such raucous attitudes? Yes Traditionals got hit hard and are almost impossible to play now. Perhaps this needs to be noted and considered. Afterall whats the point of having a style if everyones going to avoid it? Since were in the act of balancing the next part is tricky. Where do you go from here as things are slowly stabilizing and they did their purpose? But yet the penalties are too severe and hindering to those legitimately playing and not fussing about it. The legend thing might be fine as is but a little something more special to acknowledge you've gone that far. It takes true dedication to make it to a legend that is where I disagree with Beezle about it being totally pointless about the moves. It's about the effort and the strain to reach that peak. All hardships are rewarded fairly and justly it just seems a little...off. So then the 5000, 5500 factor, why punish those that want to willingly retire and make them suffer to get there? Thats why it should be a solid 6000 because you know you want to retire. You have time to prepare and do whats needed to be done. I've said enough for now. So I bid thee adieu.

-Tsenn
Post by: Wolverine(1)
2006-03-02 16:52:14
As always when a game is changed in a major or insignificant way some people feel the need to complain.

Player do not like change for the most part, that is a fact.

It is nice to see the really old players full support of doing changes.

Someone wrote something to the effect of me being hurt/annoyed/effected in any way by the complaining. Do not worry about me, I have been running games for a long time now and do understand the concept of endless complains :)
I am not saying that the current ageing concept is final - never to be changed. We will look at it continuesly and might modify it one way or the other.

The fact that the top exp players choose to retire did actually suprice me a bit. Brian Allan was still one of the best if not the best wrestler in the game with the ageing implemented.
I would have like to see him try to stay on top for a while and actually see the full effect of the ageing rules.

Peter
Post by: denzil(82151)
2006-03-02 16:53:25
Hi all. Good to see you all taken an interest in the game. Well I to have been watching and thinking the ageing thingy should be at 7 k because of some ppl that have made it to sswo or vow now do not have great chars and have learned the hard way. I can honestly say my char Con the fruiter was a very bad start to my game. He never ever hit min in his time in game. Con was going to get his 3 speck at 3000 exp and was real fun to play. Because he was very hard to play. + He had lots of crap moves on him too like bite and leg drop and stuff. I did not now any better back then. So if the age cap came in at 5 k I would have left vow. Because it was tuff enough to play with out loosing stats too if youíre a first time beginner on sswo back then. This is why I make shore any spwa or two that ask for help I give it no worries. And tell them to ask ppl in chat too. I am not always right. And if I am not right itís because I have been misinformed. There are lots of ppl in vow that help. Those ppl need a pat on the back too. Time given to new players makes the game what it is. As I said before its vow 3 now. We will all need time to see how it goes and work out new tactics now to get the best out of all our chars. I really would like to see some hidden things in the game. Like a special random move turn up in your player list. Say 4 per class to add some flavor. No player choice. You get what you get. And you donít pay for it. Say one per level spwa two and sswo. And the oldies to name it or something if thaylike.

So there is my thought for the day.

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