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Forum: VOW General
Thread: Things that need to be looked at
Post by: slangi(11441)
2006-02-28 08:52:16
Or considered

Aging/stat cap So the cap starts at 5500? And you start aging at 7000? Fair enough forced retirement to keep it competitive. Basically if this is the case people jumped the gun to oearly all you have to do is be prepared to reitre before 7000 and you're fine. But Id suggest bumping the cap up to maybe 6000. That way people can have time to buy the moves and choose to retire on their own will without being hurt for it.

Legend bonus
For the love of god someone listen to me on this and make the first retirement more beneficial. It isnt THAT one sided with the +3 and with the new aging feature it coutnerbalances things nicely. I know a lot of people that can hold their own to +3's and win consistently. SO a simple 3 1 1 1 1 1 would be suitable enough. Or find something to go with the crappy damage to reward their hard work and effort.

Donations
Alright its almost pointless now my proposition is fix the legend bonus to be a little more fair. And take out the buying AP feature so we dont hit this spiking problem of false "god wrestlers". Like before because simply the targets were people that bought their way so far with the legend bonus they seemed unbeatable. When thats not the case at all. Thanks to attacking BG mindlkessly you nerfed other guys that werent even all that tough. Middle ground here please.

These are small fixes and adjustments to counterbalance things again and keep a fine zen. Work on this then find something cool to implement later perhaps. So far this is what I've come up with. All and all we need to benefit legends a bit more. THe system works and its serving its purpose.

So peter I hope you look at this. And I hope others come up with soem more productive ideas. These are pretty fair and compromising.
Post by: Captain Stupendous(38517)
2006-02-28 12:23:27
Sorry Tsenn, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on two of your points.

Legend Bonus:
I'm doing just fine with only a +1 intermittent damage bonus. I wouldn't complain if the +3 bonus was restored... but I'm still just doing fine with a +1.

Donations:
Also, Peter would never take away the option of buying AP. That is well-earned money in the man's pocket. It takes a lot of talent to craft a browser-based game addictive enough that people will actually spend money to enhance their gaming experience. If VOW was mine, I sure as hell wouldn't get rid of a feature that generates revenue.
Post by: Coneman(325)
2006-02-28 14:18:24
Well I agree with you on all points but realisticly

And take out the buying AP feature so we dont hit this spiking problem of false "god wrestlers".

Like Peter would do that ever...

5500 is incredibly early to have a stat cap, since the "better" players retire around 6300-7000..

And I like the 3,1,1,1 idea so that it encourages someone to retire the first time and go oh I can keep adding more bonuses :s
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2007-01-15 01:46:02
I have retired 3 characters the first at 5830 exp. the second at 5764 and this last one at 6014.
so I guess I consider myself a good player with an average retirement of 5869. so I am able to retire shortly after the aging cap starts.
what I would like to see is the aging begin early so that the people who make it to legend. really are legends and not just someone who bought all the moves.
I believe that it should be harder to get the legend bonus.
although I still believe and always will that the +3 should be reinstated and with a harder requirement for legend status. it would be well earned
Post by: suepahfly(59692)
2007-01-15 09:11:48
so slangster, my man. over HERE on VOW, you ARE active! I'll keep that in mind... tssss ;)
lol

i'm missing you in AF, bro!
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-01-15 09:52:11
its working fine in my eyes. it makes players becume legends at about 7000 exp if they whish to keep some stats in hand. i became one at Experience 6795 . but the next three where all at and about But i brought 8 specs because i wanted to. all the other guys with there exp below had 6 or less. if you whish ageing to take hold and make this game harder then make ageing at 4000 at the start of sswo. if you buy all your moves at min prices ya will be come a legend at 7200 exp. is this the standard of all legends lately?

1.Experience 6523
2.Experience 6014
3.Experience 6188
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2007-01-15 10:40:06
Denzil is a good friend to me. and I value his friendship more than when the aging starts or if the legend bonus is to easy. it was just an idea that I had one day. starting the aging at 4000 sounds good to me :)
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-01-16 01:00:37

But here is an alternate idea. lets have two catagories for people who retire. when at first you retire you retire as a veteran of the game, and it takes 5 votes from current legends to become a legend of the game. Alot of people are on the legends list that shouldnt be in alot of peoples opinion. give vets a +1 when they retire, and when they hit legends status they get an additional +1, but only a +1 everytime they retire after the first time. I think legend status should be bestowed only once not everytime they retire.You want to make the game harder that would be a good way to do it.
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-01-16 22:28:57
you know something your right, i wont continue vocally admitting my displeasure with denzil. It is over! I wont try working anything out with him in pm's cause there is nothing to work out with him, and i didnt personally attack him i was talking to people whp supported him or whatever but i am over the situation. I will not say anything good or bad about him in the forum or vow. I apologize to denzil for what i said and to the mods. I removed my remarks as well.
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2007-01-17 12:22:27
...who in their right mind would suggest to start the aging cap at 4000exp? that would mean that the moment you got into vwo you would be more powerful then everyon else in the leauge u just joined... what a STUPID IDEA!!!!!
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-01-17 17:04:42
Does it matter? I was reading all the posts above and ppl posted that legends should be made harder to get onto the list. So I tossed it out there. I did not say it was a great idea. Just an idea. But what does every one want. I here on one hand they want ooba powerful legends. Then I here they are thinking the list is too soft on legends. So what do you do? Lol. I have no idea.

So if you start to loose your stats at the start of sswo that means sswo+vwo will be = and able to fight. I did not say place a cap on stats. Just start the ageing at sswo. It can start slower if ya like till say 5500 exp. then get harder again after. Will this make it harder? YES! And if ya like make it even harder after 7000 exp. Why not it will make legends work for it now. Remember this is just an idea. Well BA got screwed over at 13500 exp and there will not be another char hit this stat unless he does not care about his stats. If the idea is to make ppl restart well why not. BA voted with his feet and left VOW. Donít get me wrong. I miss the big guy. But we are all asking for lots of different stuff. There is no one agreement to any of our requests.

I donít mind ppl saying itís not a good idea but. I donít appreciate been called foolish. I am no child or pet. So please reframe from name calling thanks. I am a legend to so if you get the idea I am a newb ya wrong. I just toss ideas out there for ppl to look learn and lissend as well as coment on.

Denzil.
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2007-01-17 17:40:22
was that directed at me denzil?
Post by: jmallonee(34807)
2007-01-17 21:33:00
actually. someone doesn't understand vwo and the aging.

that would mean that the moment you got into vwo you would be more powerful then everyone else in the leauge u just joined..

not true.

it starts around 5800 and doesnt make you so weak that you cant win a match.

look at rikishi. he is at 8754 exp. and still winning matches.

everyone always wants things the easy way. with out actually earning them.

being a legend is something special not just buying all he moves and should be reflected in the game.

there are superstars. people that have achieved some fame and are great wrestlers.

there are veterans. people that have fought for a long time regardless of thier records.

and there are legends. people that have risen above what the average super star has done. the game should reflect this.

so please learn the game before opening your mouth and making comments like

that would mean that the moment you got into vwo you would be more powerful then everyone else in the leauge u just joined..

because that is just silly and supriseing comeing from a veteran like yourself who just happens to be on the legends list.
maybe you are afraid that you wouldn't be able to be one of the few that make it on the legend list if it was harder.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2007-01-18 00:44:38
Let's face it, once the Legends list started growing above 25, it didn't mean anything. All you have to do is stick around of around a year, winning around 50% of your matches and you could retire. When the legends system was first introduced, everyone played the game their own way. We had Duane (KOVOW) who left sub and aerial until last, not caring about his sub win record.

Nowadays, I would say 90% of new (and some vets) are following a pre-set path to success - yes, I admit I do this to some extent, but I changed my gameplan over time. I have proved that you can be dominant without excessive specials and am on course for a second retirement without buying a 2nd special. Now for most new SN and PG players this would be impossible, since most of them would immediately specialise piledriver or stall suplex whenever they get the chance. WHY? You're just becoming another one of the crowd and give your wrestler no unique features or specials.

How to make the becoming a Legend more worthy.... you can't. Perhaps retiring a trad would make you worthy of being in the Legends list, but that is all I can think of.


There needs to be something which entices people to stay after a long period of time. Various legends of the game have all have left because of various reasons, but usually people get bored of the game once they go through it once. Look at the oldest legends - how many of them are still around today? Hardly any, and to be honest, I have started to fall out of love with this game. Like I said to some last night, once LK gets through his 5th style, I might not donate anymore unless something changes to make me want to keep 3 guys. Aging effectively took away the ability to continue on as long as you want, just because some people were jealous of someone else's success. A lot of people couldn't put in the work to use their AP wisely and try to catch up with old Brian, couldn't figure out a gameplan to beat Joker for a belt, couldn't beat Bubba and Hick with their legend bonuses. Like Jim said, people want things the easy way and won't work to get it.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-01-18 01:15:40
who in their right mind would suggest to start the aging cap at 4000exp? that would mean that the moment you got into vwo you would be more powerful then everyon else in the leauge u just joined... what a STUPID IDEA!!!!!

Are you calling me STUPID ? If so think about name calling thanks. I have not got personal with your self.

So far this thread was about the game and how tuff we need to make legends. Then the next second we are talking about makeng it tuffer for legends to make the list. So which one do we do.

I was just tossing a idea out there. i dont mind ppl saying its bad. thats fine. but to much negativaty will kill off any one posting any thing if you jump down there neck. if you get my drift.

of course at VWO your gona be a legend. if you get this far your just 2000 exp away from it.

if you wanted to make it tuffer. let the 4000 exp chars take stats off. do it very slowly. then after 5500 exp let it go as normal. then after 7000 exp make it masive. if your not a legend by 7000 exp tuff. guts it out..

I my self took the way threw pg buying all my air moves. this was tuff but i did it. most ppl just save and go straight to legend status. i think i learned more about my char and air moves by doing it tuff havening a air stat of 13. guttsing it out and learning is all part of the game. i am a legend in this game. but i dont belive i am. Why. because you look at the oldys like Bubba hick joker and mad max. all legends. True legends. i am just a player that has struggled threw the game. i am lucky enuf to have a alt that i have allready gone to sswo with. vlad. this trainning has set up hellspawn for a awesome run. when helly gets seconed time legend i will feel that i have learned lots more and can say i am dezerving the spot.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-01-18 01:39:37
I was thinking about how to make a little more fun for vets.\5 time legends. You start by letting them name there own style. Its there call. Then you give them 11 moves that are standard. Then let them pick 5 moves those selves. To finish this off The 5 time legend will never go under 1000 fame. Then give them min stats of 25 each. Then let them set the max level for there starting char for each move style. Do this with in reason. I am sure they will max con of course so itís only the other main stats to set. As well as a 5 time legend they have personalized there own char to this game... Why not they have deserved it.

If you like these ideas say so. If you dislike it fine. Let us know what could be improved. Thanks. This will not affect me for atlest 3 more years. Lol. I am just trying to help the legends have something new to try. Or why not make some npcs that vets can play against that have truly awesome stats too. Just so they can get matchs and not sit on 30000 ap because of lack of matchs.

Denzil
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-01-18 04:09:20
Thanks for your post on legend changes, sounds like it would make them almost god like, but i agree with you that some reward should be established.

I think that everyone who has'nt retired all the styles should be removed from the legends list. Because just going through the motions one time doesnt make a person a legend in my book.

When a person retires still give them the +1 maybe. After they have retired all styles put them on the legends list, because then they would be a true legend.

Allow the legend to pick their style and 2 moves they want, also add something to thier stat page that indicates they are a Legend of vow.

I dont feel we need to make the game any harder, enough of the vets have "voted with thier feet" as you like to say lol

But this would make it harder to be a Legend, the main goal of alot of people that play vow.

Post your thoughts.
"The nicest guy in VOW"
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-01-18 14:33:02
Well I like Rayís thoughts on the legend list. You need to have done all five styles to become a legend. I think this is truly awesome. I agree 100%.

Make a new style and give some good stuff to them. I think so. Some of these guys have done it in 2.5 years. Most standard players will do it in about 4 to 5 years. This to be a legendary feet staying in game so long and becoming a true legend. I think that this qualifies as legendary too.

Giving the legends 5 moves of there choice might be good with the variable stats too. Even the set fame as well. I donít know what exp to give them but thatís something they should get for sure.

Rember 5 TIME LEGENDS should get special treatment. They pioneered the game. Then a choice for the player. As a 5 time legend. I am sure there sick of seeing the ageing. Let them go. Let them not age. Remember there in a league of there own. This way there is no reason to leave VOW.

You could have some N.P.C for them to battle and get fame. You could base it on Mira stats of there own. Or someing like this. I am sure not to many ppl will whish to fight them but hay what do we do. A stat cap for 5 time legends that never drops or what do we do. How do we keep players like LK\Joker in game? When you hit vwo you are looking for any match. Itís getting to tuff to take any thing. Jobbers to been bashed by chars with 2k extra exp. You will take them because of lack of matches. Wile AP builds up.. I am looking for more ideas on this sort of thing. If you donít like it please say so in a nice way thanks. I am just tossing this out there. I am not sure if there is a fix.


Denzil
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2007-01-23 11:02:24
denzil i am sorry if i offended you but the stat cap starting at 4000exp is ridiculous becuase the strongest vwo would be the newest ones that have just entered the leauge.... i remeber when you first come into a leauge you get beat down a little at the start and then you become the person who is handing those beating out.... you dont walk into VWO and start picking appart joker and benoit when your 4000exp.... and i agree with you LK a number of things that made this game great were taken away becuase people wanted it easier
Post by: word life 101(66857)
2007-01-23 11:05:46
i beleive if you retire once you can still go on the legends list... however whoever is thinking about retiring 5 times should have an added insentive like picking extra moves or not aging
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-01-23 11:41:13
word . hi bud. cheers bud. i new ya was not meaning to be nasty. i was just pointing it out. i was haven a bit of a shocker at the time. i beg to differ on starting in vwo. here is some numbers. if you agree that con is the main stat in the hole game to make it realy simple. lets see how many vwo to sswo have the same or better con stat. with out looking i know this answer.





best stat.



Char The Hobo(28235) is at his max con stat.

Consciousness 131 .



Char Will Rumble(65140) he is the top sswo. There is 41 VWO that are higher in the Consciousness stat.

Consciousness 122



then there is Char Rikishi(36320) .

Consciousness 101(117) .



Kish is not to far behind him in con. but how many specs dose he have+exp. i know i judj my matchs by exp till i am in vwo. you just take what matchs you can get. you will see the ageing thingy has got ppl running.



look at BA. what was his con after Experience 13637 +24 specs. Was he feered? Yes.

BA.Consciousness 130



i realy think the sswo coment is over rated. truely.

Post by: Syrjis(80123)
2007-01-24 21:58:26
To be fair to BA, his max cons would have been around 90 (?) when he retired..

And I have 13 specs atm. 14th is on it's way. And 8807 exp at the time posting this.
Post by: denzil(82151)
2007-01-25 12:35:42
well my spwa is on 93 con. so you see why BA left. wile he still had stats. he allso lost masive stats too. so. the numbers say if your gona hit 15000 exp ya will be doing lms with spwas. and winning because of specs +exp.

Denzil
Post by: gruchul(66928)
2007-01-27 22:27:50
BA retired when it became shockingly apparent how easily he would slip down the slope to SPWA stats. I know he took stat damage in his last two matches pre retirement
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2007-01-28 06:20:06
Thanks for your post on legend changes, sounds like it would make them almost god like, but i agree with you that some reward should be established.

I think that everyone who has'nt retired all the styles should be removed from the legends list. Because just going through the motions one time doesnt make a person a legend in my book.

When a person retires still give them the +1 maybe. After they have retired all styles put them on the legends list, because then they would be a true legend.

Allow the legend to pick their style and 2 moves they want, also add something to thier stat page that indicates they are a Legend of vow.

I dont feel we need to make the game any harder, enough of the vets have "voted with thier feet" as you like to say lol

But this would make it harder to be a Legend, the main goal of alot of people that play vow.

Post your thoughts.

-----

I am not certain how you can reconcile "not making the game harder" by requiring everyone play and retire all five styles in order to become a true legend.

Why not just implement a leaderboard to complement the Legends list? The leaderboard will show how many times each Legend has retired. Cutting the Legends list to only one or two names (who have retired every style) is overkill.
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-01-28 08:24:39
well they were just some thought maybe not very organised, but something to go off of, i havent heard any better suggestions. I dont think just because a person retires it makes them a legend, maybe a vet but not a legend.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2007-01-28 17:28:44
We already have veterans in this game. They're all in the Veteran Wrestling Organization.

You also have to consider that the Legend list inevitably grows as more players complete its requirement, just as any Hall of Fame grows. I don't advocate pruning the list - or making it harder to join - just because most of the names there either retired only once or are wrestlers you've never heard of. No Hall of Fame removes names from its list, just because "it's grown too big".

And the VOW Legends list has a leg up over a lot of real-life Halls of Fame, because it's based on merit, not on a group of voters deciding who goes in.

The Legend list does not just show the names of everyone who bought all the moves and decided to start over, it also reflects the history of VOW's player base. Everyone sees Bubba and hick bob as the yardstick just because they retired so many times, but you also have:

Scorpion: first to buy all the moves, several weeks before everyone else did
Mistah Speddles: first nondonor to retire, proving that the list is open to all
gatcholio: the only player to have retired at less than 5000 XP
BLACK WOLF 1: the first female player to make the list
TDAWG: first to retire with...zero offensive stats
Brian Allan: highest XP, most pinfall and sub victories, and owns the most specials

These are just a few of the names who haven't equalled Bubba in number of retirements, but have accomplished things in this game that will be either very hard if not impossible to match. They deserve to have their accomplishments recorded, not rubbished just because Bubba Gump retired more times than they did.

Instead of trimming the list, or worse, creating a two-level list (one for 5-time retirees, and another for everyone else), just set up a leaderboard on Number of Retirements. It can be like the other VOW leaderboards: most money, highest fame, most experience, most LMS wins, etc.
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-01-28 19:42:49
Well personally I would like to see something more than a leaderboard. Maybe a lifetime achievment list. I just think there should be a seperate reward for those that have compleated everything the games as have offered like retiring all 5 styles. Maybe a hall of fame list, where after you have retired all styles you can enter. it just seems unfair that someone who has retired once, be classed with those that have retired all styles.
Post by: m_carta(37500)
2007-01-29 02:11:50
Except every Hall of Fame has entries who will always be considered better than the rest. Many athletes earn a spot in their sports' Hall of Fame without ever winning the biggest title in their sport, or didn't set any records, but made it because they were consistent. That's just the nature of these lists.

I certainly don't see Muhammad Hassan or Chris.Benoit being classed as equals to Bubba; they are on the same list, but Bubba's name appears more often, and he does more damage in matches.

To put your ideas in a non-VOW context, for instance, Bobby Charlton would be undeserving of his Hall of Fame status because he only won one World Cup (and on home soil), while Cafu did it twice. Except Charlton won a World Cup, while countless other players would count it as a privilege to simply be part of their country's World Cup team.

It is interesting though to see Bubba and hick bob being elevated as "true legends", when they were also derided for "buying their way" to greatness. Remember that? You go to bed, you log onto VOW the next day and find out Bubba's caught up with you because he bought another boatload of AP.

Buying AP is an option open to all players, but Bubba and hick bob were the most well-known for doing it, and it helped them get multiple entries on the Legends list in a very short period of time. If a bunch of other players followed Bubba and hick's strategy, we'd be hearing those "they bought their Legend status" gripes all over again...and we'd once again we would have talk about redefining what a Legend means in VOW.

That's why I don't agree with the assessment that the Legends list should drop some names: when you say that only the players who retired all the styles are eligible for Legend status, you also say that only the players who sent PLIT a lot of money deserve to be there. And take note the vast majority of VOW Legends have sent PLIT money at least once during their run.

The current (and only) requirement for Legend status is fine as it is. I would agree though that there should be an incentive to convince players to go for all five styles. This will at least help repopulate some styles that seem rather scarce right now.
Post by: yar(35506)
2007-01-29 07:43:16
Well huang, I guess I will just agree to disagree with you on this issue. But nothing will be done anyway, so really we are just sharing our idea's and opinions. I have enjoyed this discussion with you though, but I think i will let it go, and let others add there opinions.
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