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Forum: VOW General
Thread: Whats the point in entering tournys?
Post by: insane clown(11577)
2005-09-03 04:35:26
Now i know i will get loads of stick about this but its funny that the only people who give it to me is people who dont retire or are not planning to.

Now i couldnt give a crap if what happens with this post as i have to stop playing in 1-2 months so im just looking out for the newer players.

People after getting a certain amount of exp and have all moves that choose not to retire shouldnt be allowed to enter the tounys, Doug and peter say this is all about the new players, WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT for the new players to be making there way up the game and trying to win belts when you are gonna have people with 15k exp and 200 con holding the titles?

Its like if i didnt retire KOVOW or scorp retiring the first time and we keept entering the tournys now people like BA and crappy would be complaining.

I personally think it is stupid whos eventually gonna beat crappy from winning the cage whens hes a PG with 150 con.

What if BA keeps entering the tech tourny why would people want to enter it aswell all u will do is get damage and no money now, so the new players that are joining now stand no chance in the future.

Now i know i am gonna get moaners on here saying the game just revolves around u IC, we no it dont it now revolves around Crappy and the others who dont stop entering the tournys and ruin the fun for others.

Peace
Post by: madeles(83025)
2005-09-03 04:45:14
I agree with IC to an extent because when the SSWO tournaments are dominated by those who aren't going to retire, it makes it more difficult for those of us who plan to retire.

However, I am friends with Brian Allan and Mr. Crappy pants so I can see that they want to carry on and be the best. I just think that if you look at Bubber and Hick Bob who have retired 9 times between them then it is possible to be the best having retired.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-09-03 05:29:37
For once I agree with IC.

But what I would also like to see is a one wrestler per account per tourney. This will stop people entering their alts to make the tourneys run faster.

Maybe having tourneys for people with over 5500 or 6000 exp should be added. Therefore, there is more chance for people with under 6k exp to win a belt.

Current Champs + exp
World: Brian Allan (8872)
Ladder: Doom Merchant (6293)
Cage: Boognish (6645)
SN: tajiri_._tarantula (5785)
PG: MCP (5650)
Air: Scorp - twice legend (5404)
Trad: maximumpayne (6505)
Tech: Last champ was IC (6048 @ retirement)

So out of the 7 current champions in SSWO, there is only one that has less than 5500 exp, but he is a double legend. The average exp of a champion is 6450 exp.
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2005-09-03 08:16:13
We already went over this on the chat, and I've already said it numerous times, experience really doesn't make that much of a difference. When you're a wrestler with all the moves, or close to having every single one it always, always comes down to luck.

You can go on and on about MCP and I not retiring, or gaining more con, but even con doesn't help too much in the upper tier of SSWO. Pins and subs see to it that I don't win every tournament. Hell, even in Ladder and Cage tournaments I'm getting ko'd. Luck will always be the ultimate factor in this game, not experience. Also, there's still the luck factor playing into the early ladder/cage raises that sees to it that it's not always a fight to the KO in that environment.

Retirement is a choice in this game, not a requirement. I have that choice to continue on if I wish. I've spent the good part of eleven months on this game building my wrestler up; that I can't start all over again, and I also can't see myself being any other style apart from a technical wrestler. If you have a problem with that, then that's cool, but I won't be forced into something I don't want to to do, and you can deal with that, Duane.
Post by: gatcholio(28366)
2005-09-03 11:26:59
mcp doesn't even have 5700 exp. i retired way earlier than anyone else at 5000 exp. all but the ladder and cage tourney are singles... ie. luck plays a large part due to pins and subs. and lets not forget IC held the title for tech for a long time regardless of the top 3 techs in experience entering the tourney. if experience was so much of a tournament killer, don't you think BA, Jaysen, or Boognish would have won it from him long ago?



I'm planning on retiring early again, and i'm gathering my belts early, cuz I know I won't have a chance at sswo belts at 5k experience. I don't have a problem with it. you want to lobby something to open the sswo belts, how about lobbying for a nonretirement league above 8000 experience or something. if you buy all moves at minimum price, you will retire around 7200 exp. so don't complain that someone hasn't retired at 5700 exp or even 6500 exp. it doesn't make sense. you should be looking at experience of previous retired characters, not current champs for what is a reasonable time to retire and when too much is too much if any.

MCP isn't even the top PG, look at Fangblast. he's got more experience. other PG's that have retired didn't do it before 6000 exp, that I know of.


as far as one wrestler per account, I think it's silly. my 3 wrestlers aren't the same wrestler, and we DONATE for the privilage. let's not start taking away donators privilages. thanks. :s



you had a choice to retire. BA, MCP, and others have decided long before this time that they wouldn't retire, and LK, your characters, I know you have said, that at least one won't retire again, so I don't know why you are agreeing to mandatory retirement.

The game doesn't revolve around any one player. But some would like it too. Some that complain about every little unfair part of the game. The game is fine in my eyes. now come and get the pwo titles from me.. or do I have too much experience?
Post by: Coneman(325)
2005-09-03 11:56:57
Mmmm haven't read it all so someone might have said this.
Quote from Brian Allan

We already went over this on the chat, and I've already said it numerous times, experience really doesn't make that much of a difference. When you're a wrestler with all the moves, or close to having every single one it always, always comes down to luck.

Maybe not in singles but ladders and cages it will be impossible to take a title off someone who has double your conciousness.

Making a non-retirement league would be good but it'd be empty..and the same problem will happen in it.

Example:
MCP has 8000 exp, by the time it fills with enough others to fight in tournaments, he'll heave heaps more than anyone who joins the league new. If that made sense.

And VOW's an open ended game anyway so there's no way of forcing them to retire, I think.
Post by: Brian Allan(45150)
2005-09-03 12:50:23
Quote from Coneman:

"Maybe not in singles but ladders and cages it will be impossible to take a title off someone who has double your conciousness."

Well, as I said, there's still a luck factor in the early ladder/cage raises so it won't be impossible to defeat someone like that. Hard? Yes. Not impossible though. ;)
Post by: Coneman(325)
2005-09-03 13:25:14
Like 1 out of a 100...
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2005-09-03 14:38:50
Interesting discussion...

Brian is 98% right... Cone, IC, and so on are 98% wrong

When you hit the 5000exp mark, you can basically beat ANYONE. Normally you have all moves except for the 1 or 2 dmg moves - missing those isnt a great handicap.
Stat-increase is a lot slower when you have high exp, so the "double con" comment is pretty exaggerated. I think BA has about 15 more con then a 5000 exp guy (even though he has allmost twice as much exp).

So, how big is really the advantage someone who doesnt retire have? 3000exp more at those levels amount to about 14 con (about 10%), 5 in other stats (about 7%), and maybe (allthough this really depends on the players) 2 or 3 finishers (20%).

Of course they are better, but only by a small margin - the advantage is smaller than the one a high PWO has over a mid-PWO.

Espescially in singles matches, matches should be pretty even. In cage matches your gonna need just a little luck... countering one of their finishers or hitting one finisher more than they do... but not more.
Post by: Kueller(13231)
2005-09-03 14:41:17
Edit to my post:
You can beat ANYONE except Scorpion
Post by: insane clown(11577)
2005-09-03 16:17:49
Hey look the moaners arrived on time

"and you can deal with that, Duane."

"The game doesn't revolve around any one player. But some would like it too."

U lot are talking about who there compition is now not there future compition tho, what about laws that are just starting and building there way up? by the time they have made it up there the people who aint retired WONT Be beaten.

everybody here is looking at it now but you are all mainly wrong.
Post by: The Legend Killer(21778)
2005-09-03 17:09:55
Quote Gatch:
"you had a choice to retire. BA, MCP, and others have decided long before this time that they wouldn't retire, and LK, your characters, I know you have said, that at least one won't retire again, so I don't know why you are agreeing to mandatory retirement."

I never said anything in my post about retirement, so stop putting words into my mouth. I know Joker won't retire anymore, and that's the way I want it to be.

I have never been against manditory retirement, or else, I'd just build the same wrestler build every time to get to retirement in the fastest possible time. All I'm saying is that a lot of people get it very tough when it comes to tourneys.

OK, I have it all well and good, as all my wrestlers get the +3 damage bonus, but there are some people who have played this game for a long time (maybe non-donating), who get beaten by people with all the moves and a massive damage bonus.


Quote Gatch:
"as far as one wrestler per account, I think it's silly. my 3 wrestlers aren't the same wrestler, and we DONATE for the privilage. let's not start taking away donators privilages. thanks. :s "

You cannot make your alts fight each other normally, so why should tourneys be an exception?


Quote Scorp:
"Edit to my post:
You can beat ANYONE except Scorpion"

LOL thanks for that!



Just another point, some style tourneys have less competition than others. It's been like that since day one. Veggie would win 99% of the PG tourneys before Bouncer came along. The Trad was a little more open, because the exp gap was a little closer.

I got LK to win the Air title at abuot 3000 exp, and this was because I waited for the right time to enter (i.e. after KtC retired :P ).

The mind is selectively negative mostly. You remember the bad things and make them seem more than the good.
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